Hey HT

I'm starting my project/build and just wanted to see what people think about it and get any thoughts on it from you guys since you've been doing it way longer than me I'm sure.

I'm actually really excited about this - it's hard to portray that emotion over the internet.

Today I scooped up an f22 long block non vtec. Came with everything but the alternator, and is in excellent shape.

My plan is to go vtec turbo. From what I keep seeing, supposedly the non vtec head (which this motor came with) flows better than the vtec one, but I always wanted vtec. I'm now looking for a running f23 vtec head to mate to
this block.

I've been doing alot of reading on here - and saw one of the members made in the 300hp range - stock motor. I plan to do something similar, lightly modded though. I definitely plan on grabbing ARP Head Studs.

I haven't made any big decisions on the turbo kit/setup yet...but so far to get this thing together and running here are the list of things I have...

f23 vtec head
f23 IM and TB
Stock f22 block
880cc Injectors
4bar MAP sensor
ARP Head Studs
Walbro 255
p28 - Crome Pro
A serious clutch - I'm told the 4puck is the one but havent done any research


I'll be posting my questions here as I go on - I hope some of you guys can help me out...

so far - is the stock HG my best choice or should I go with a metal?
Are the f22 and f23 HGs the same?

I started my turbo adventures in a dsm - and those metal HG's were more trouble than they were worth in that world...

Also - any input on a clutch?
Again - from my previous vehicle the most streetable was the highest pressure plate and a street disk - my buddy says the 4puck...

Lastly, are there any prefabbed FMIC kits for 94-97 accord or 98-01 accord? I know I can always get pipes fabbed and grab a NICE core - just wondering if there was a one stop shopping...

thanks guys...I'll keep this thread updated!

KP

 

*I think this needs to be moved to the hybrid section, but I'm not sure - if a mod sees this, please move where appropriate.*

Update

Block and head are apart - had to trash the head to get it off...one of the head bolts was seized.
Block looks very nice - rings were good too - always nice.

Next step is f22b vtec head. We were looking at the f23a1 head but its not the business LOL

So now I'm on the hunt for some ARP Head Studs, and this vtec head...get that altogether and I should be able to get some pics up.

 

ARP's on way
Hope to grab the head later this week/early next week

A few things I'm worried about but I guess we'll tackle them as they come...

1. Intake Manifold. On the f22 vtec head, from what I'm seeing - I have a couple of options...
a. aftermarket
b. f23a1
c. h22/23

I'm leaning towards c - but I also have to find what will be the best throttle body. If the h22 TB works as well as the h23 IM, that will work, as I'm going for as many OEM parts as I can find. The f23 IM supposedly responds well to boost as well, but I guess we'll see what's available when I get to that step. The problem with the h23 is I think I'll have to do some HEAVY mods to get aftermarket injectors and the fuel system to work properly.

2. Throttle Body
Which would be my best bet for an OEM fitting OEM part? I know, especially in boost applications, how important this part is, so I'm going to keep reading and researching to find which is the best bet, but any input is appreciated.

3. ECU/Engine Harness/Wiring
I'm not BAD at wiring, its just time consuming and difficult. Im hoping whatever I decide to put it in, if I have to modify the harness - its not a disaster. I DO want P/S and A/C as I plan to rock this all spring and summer, and it gets HOT.

Thanks for anyone whos following if anyone at all...and stay tuned...its coming along...

 

I just got out of my 2g tsi... PITA for sure with the dsm's. Anyways... The h22 vtec, h23 non vtec IM's will not fit on the f22b1 sohc vtec or the f23a1 sohc vtec head, Trust me, i just did an h22 swap in my 6th gen and wrote up a comparison for the intake manifolds. The only head those will fit on is the f22b dohc jdm Non vtec head, basically the same thing as an h23 non vtec and obviously the engines they came on... Ill see if i can find my old post about it on 6ga.

 

http://www.6thgenaccord.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=42385
hopefully this helps clear up what i was talking about.

 

Definitely checked it out, and that cleared that right up...
So I guess the only look is aftermarket if it exists...the f23 IM might be my only hope here, I just hope it flows enough.

with either the F22 or f23 IM - any thoughts on an OEM TB? f22/f23/h series...?

From my dsm days I know this is a big deal, tryna do it once and do it right.

 

Intake manifold wise...

I should be able to use the h series plenum with the stock runners...h series TB

 

Well, The f23 head and intake combo makes pretty decent numbers and responds well to boost and is Very torquey, (Plenty of boosted f23's on 6ga) and There have been numerous builds over 250whp on a completely stock block, and one example netted over 300whp reliably. As far as intake manifold goes, you can port the lower intake manifold, and also port the throttle body opening to allow the h22 throttle body, and larger aftermarket ones aswell. (I know the h22 TB is larger than F23 and would make a cheap upgrade)

 

I'm hoping to see comparable numbers with either the f22 or f23 vtec head. With the turbo setup, 300+ isn't unfathomable, and I honestly think there's a smidge more in there.

As for the IM
I will most likely port match but what I'm asking is, on either the f23 or f22 IM, can't I just run the h22/h23 plenum, that way I don't have to port to match - I can just run a stock h22/23 TB.

Stock H22/23 plenum - stock f22/23 runners - stock h22/23 TB <---that should work right?

 

No the H22/H23 upper plenum will not work on the F23 lower. Your best option is to have the F23 IM ported a little bit. Going boost will help this thing breath anyway.

As far as the heads go. The VTEC in the SOHC F23 is not for performance, it's for fuel economy. It doesn't work exactly the same as the DOHC H22 or B series VTEC engines do ether. When the car is out of VTEC one of the two intake valves only opens 1/4 of the way. You will probably want to pick up an upgraded cam to help it out a little bit.

Not sure if any of the aftermarket (regrind) cams have the second intake valve opening more when out of VTEC or not. That is something someone else will have to chime in on. Not a big fan of the SOHC F series VTEC myself.

 

What about re-chipping the ECU. Maybe this and a different cam would do better?

 

Chipping, or tuning, the ECU won't help a valve physically open more/higher. A different cam and a tune is a must!

 

x2!

 

No worries here...when it comes to the ECU its either going to be Crome or Hondata - not really thinking about it yet...

 

Ghost - message recieved about the f23 IM. Will any H TB's bolt to it?

The cam is going to be either the stocker or a delta regrind. Depends on how quickly/not quickly I want this thing together after I pick up a head. (Would have to ship it to delta)

 

The tune is one of the most important parts of a build!

Seems like quite a few people don't budget enough for engine management and tuning. Just remember that the ones that don't budget. Always seem to end up wondering why their engine runs like crap or why it melted a piston or blew a rod! This site is testament to that!

I'm not saying that you fit in this category. I'm just putting it out there for the future people who read this thread.

 

If not the most important!

I've been through spun rod bearings - partially because I should have had a tune/better tune and the block was already old but still, learned my lesson. Tune is the most important part...make it run like stock...

No offense taken man.

Any idea about the H Throttle Body on the F Intake mani?

 

Sorry boss, not sure about the H TB. Haven't worked on any F23 intakes.

 

For a TB I know I plan to do a F23 IM with a OmniPower 70mm TB if I'm not mistaken that's the size that or 72mm can't remember off my head.

 

it looks like the h22 tb would work. We will see when the time comes. I may just port match the intake to a ported stock tb if that could work....

 

The H22 TB won't work untill the upper plenum on the f23 is opened up. i know it bolts up because i tried it out, and im using the f23 tb on the h22 to keep cruise. Probably losing a couple Hp. lol

 

For the money sending your TB to maxbore.com and taking it out as far as it can go would be well worth it.

They will bore your TB and port match your intake for $195.

 

whats up fellas

grabbed up a head today - f23a1
head and block are together
New stock hg on

Looking at it, we saw the f22 intake manifold would fit if it was modified, so that was just cut down a little where the vtec will be. f22 intake manifold with the stock f22 throttle body is on there as it sits...

i have been contemplating a number of things...but really I think I'm going to go with h22 TB and just bore out the IM I have to match...

next is the turbo setup and the trans.

I've picked out a manifold/downpipe combo, and will be custom making my turbo ( (one of the few areas I have experience in so far).

I want 880s but I don't know if that will be enough injector.

I ran 550's on a 16g in my 2.0 DOHC 20psi - duty cycle was close to max...not high 90s but still...thats too high. I probably should just grab the 1000.

 

MTF - so what you're saying is I should be able to bolt the h22 TB to f22 IM as long as I port it to match?

 

The F22 intake may fit, however if you look you will see that the ports are different shapes and would cause a bit of turbulence without some sort of a transition work.

Here you can see the F22A1-6 intake port vs the F22B1-2/F23A1-5


As for the throttle body comment,
What I was meaning to say about the throttle body was to send in your stock F series TB and intake and have it ported as large as it can go,you would have to contact them to see what the maximum bore is. IIRC it's around 60-65mm for the F series TB and intake. Before you start opening up and hitting IACV and FITV internal ports.