Hi everyone,


I know there are really 3 tuning methods as far as I know now,
Alpha-N
Rpm vs load/mbar <-- not technically sure what this method is actually called.
VE - Volumetric Efficiency


Does anyone who tunes Honda's use the Volumetric Efficiency method to tune?? A close friend of mine uses ECM link "DSMs" and that's really the only time I have heard of someone using VE to tune.


Is there any advantage to using VE to tune vs the normal RPM vs Load/mbar method that's common in most Honda tuning applications?


Thanks,
--Aaron

 

It's more management system dependant than a choice. Fast & Accel don't have fuel maps, just VE maps. AEM S1 & 2 have fuel maps, but their new Infinity box is VE based. It just depends on what you choose to use.

IMHO it doesn't matter. The tables accomplish the exact same thing, just with different values. My personal preference is to use a fuel map though, simply because I like to easily see when I'm getting close to the end of the injector. With VE maps you have to do some mental math.

 

I don't know what Fast & Accel is?

I understand the tables accomplish the same end result "A tune on your car"

Use a fuel map? I'm not sure what you mean by this... but I'm guessing rather then an arbitrary fuel value you like to use a 2d window that allows you to see injector duty cycle?

 

They are two very popular management systems. Probably two of the most popular once you step out of the Honda world.

http://accel-ignition.com/ACCELDFI.aspx
http://www.fuelairspark.com/

Eh no. The sum of all the tables result in a "tune on your car" but fuel tables and VE tables only serve one purpose, to match the correct amount of fuel with air.

No idea what you mean, but download some software and play around if you really want to learn about different management system strategies. Your tuning "method" should be the same regardless of the values you use or what individual tables are labeled.

 

I have been tuning since 2008 I'm aware of Neptune chrome and DSMLink. I have Neptune on my H22 Civic that I tuned.

I don't know what you mean by "My personal preference is to use a fuel map though, simply because I like to easily see when I'm getting close to the end of the injector."

This question is more a loaded question I'm curious as to why someone would use VE over RPM Vs Load like most tuning systems.

 

I have always seen the Fuel table is VE. So every tuning software has a VE table.

as far as the 3,

Map sensor (speed density) which is load vs rpm

Maf sensor (hz or volts) which is a voltage table and most will have a VE (fuel) table separate from. Most i see tune the maf curve and let the narrowband do the work int he VE table.

Alpha N which is tps based tuning tps vs rpm mostly seen in motorcycles, or itb cars but used in place of some turbo cars/trucks.

 

Fuel table is effectively the same method as VE, just in different units. They are both load vs. rpm.

 

There is a big difference in all those types of tuning strategies. They are not all equal.. a TRUE VE based system, is the best way to go. The problem is most of the ECUs are not TRUE VE. A true VE based ECU uses an airflow model to calculate airmass through the engine under various conditions, then calculates the fuel delivered based on the current calced airmass. (its more complex than this, but its the simple explanation). This allow for the most stable fueling across all conditions. A basic pulsewidth map type strategy is a fixed fuel value that will not change with changes in conditions. Instead they have to rely on trim tables to trim fueling for changes in conditions, but this method is not as consistent usually and does not allow for some of the more advanced functions that are available in higher end ECUs. I can expand on this but its late. Maybe later .. Best thing if you want to learn about the differences is to do some research into how late model GM or Ford calculate fueling compared to say Hondas from the 90s. GM really has a VERY good fueling model/strategy. It really does get complex.. I tried to keep the explanation simple. There are a few ECUs out there that have the basic idea of VE, but are not complete in the math and calcs so while they are better than a std pulsewidth type setup they still arn't as good as a late model OEM ecu that does TRUE VE. In an ideal world, we'd all use Mass Airflow Meters and exact airmass would always be known therefore fueling would always be perfect regardless of changes in conditions. Unfortunately MAFs aren't always feasible or practical in high performance applications due to some physical limitations of the technology itself. True Speed Density Based VE is the next best thing and when done properly can be just as accurate and much more reliable.

 

Im a noob to hondatech and forums in general, but i wanted to learn more about tuning my stock 98 civic ex. Everthing in here seems to be advanced, either im not looking in the right place or this forum in general is for more advanced members of the honda world than i. Any suggestions?

 

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