I have searched and could not find an answer. Sorry if I missed it.
The car is a mostly track only 93 integra Gsr with legend calipers, Hawk Hps pads, Napa rotors, and Valvoline dot 4 synthetic brake fluid. At the track I was measuring rotor temps of 270-280 degrees on the front after 30 mins. during a 60 min session I starting feeling the brakes fade and when done temps were right around 300 degrees. My questions are the temps about what I should be seeing or on the high side. Also am I using the wrong brake pad? Thanks for any help.

 

if your fading the pads, you need more pad. simple simple. hps aren't realy for track use. not up front anyway. i don't know what tire you are on, how brake intensive the track you drive on is or your skill level. but i would step up the pad to at least an hp+, but you could probably just put on a set of ht-10s and be fine.
also a tip-remove the factory dust shields. they heat soak.....everything.

 

I assume that you're taking temps back in the paddock after a cool down lap... if you're doing anything other than taking temps in real time, on track it'll be tough to tell much of anything from your data. If the pedal feels fine (i.e. not getting pad fade or fluid boiling) then you're fine. FWIW and all that, more track oriented pads will work in the 1300* range...

Christian

Edit:
I'd advise against removing all of the heat shield. Trimming it and leaving at least the very bottom of it is great protection for your lower balljoint and balljoint boot.

 

Yes I am taking the temps in the paddock after the cool down lap. I have removed almost all of the dust shield. I am using Yokahama advan tires, the track does have a lot turns and braking, and my skill level is probably average. I am getting some brake fade the longer I run. Thanks for the help.

 

Wow if HPS pads fade at 300 degrees fahrenheit I wouldn't even use those on a daily driver lmao. Get yourself dedicated track pads or at least a better/higher rated street pad.

 

I would assume that on track ( oregonraceway.com ) pushing the car the temps would be quite a bit higher. I try and use the brakes very little on the cool down lap. I start seeing some brake fade at about 35-40 mins of constant pushing.

 

If its any indicator for you, I use carbo tech xp10 on the front of an s2000, stock calipers and generic rotors and they can reach 1000 F in the paddock in pit area (no cool down lap) and the pedal may go a little deeper but certainly not fading.

 

just wrap the balljoint in heat tape/wrap. problem solved, no sharp metal looming behind your rotor.

 

Soooo... here's the thing. Your pads should be pretty shitty on track. If you're able to push them for that long without fade issues then you're not pushing the car that hard (not that there's anything wrong with that). Track days are supposed to be *fun* and some folks get obsessed with the "right setup" and the "right parts"... and, in the process, lose sight of the fun aspect. It's an HPDE. If what you have works, then don't futz with it. There are undoubtedly other more track oriented pads out there but they're not going to be as good on the street. No one pad will be perfect on the street and perfect on the track. Either accept a compromise pad choice or plan to swap pads/rotors for track days.

PS
One other option if you want to continue running more streetable pads would be to look at some ducting. Wouldn't impact street manners but would cut down on fade at the track.

 

That definitely works too. I always found it cheaper/easier to just use part of the heat shield and then smooth off the edges... it was also a small enough piece of metal (just used one mounting hole) that it didn't get in the way of separating the upright from the LCA and was one less thing to remove/replace.

My $0.02 and all that.

 

Thanks for the help, I would agree I'm not pushing the car hard enough. But now that I have become a better driver, I need better brakes. I don't care much about streetable brakes, as I drive very little around town. Have thought about ducts, but not sure.

 

Gotcha. If you *want* more aggressive pads, there are a ton of good options out there. Maybe reach out to Cobalt and/or Carbotech. They're probably the best option for a dual use pad (I've got Cobalt XR3's on the front on my street/occasional autocross and track day ITR). Hawks have been known to have some issues with delamination in their more track oriented compounds (the exception being Blues but I wouldn't run those on the street). Raybestos has some amazing race compounds but are overkill for the street. Ferrodo makes some good stuff IIRC but I don't have first hand experience with them...

FWIW, adding ducting will make a *huge* difference to temps and allow you to run a more streetable pad... it's a cheap and effective mod. No need to go crazy with the routing of the hose at the caliper either. Not that proper routing doesn't make a difference (it does) but just getting some airflow will be a huge help.

 

This was after 30min of hard braking on brand new cheap pads from NAPA auto parts (was the closest shop to the track) and they had no trouble slowing the car down at all.

 

how often do you bleed the fluid?

 

Don't waste your time taking rotor temps with an IR thermometer. Buy AP racing paints. If the green and orange paint turn white, and the red paint stays red, you are in the range of proper race pad temps. If the red paint turns white, you are overheating the rotors and pads and you need more cooling.

When assessing brake temperatures it is important to complete several successive laps (5 or preferably 10) at race speeds and vehicle weight to allow temperatures to stabilise at a representative level.

Under racing conditions disc bulk temperatures should normally be maintained in the range 400°C to 600°C for best performance. Disc face peak temperatures may be higher but should not exceed the maximum recommended for the pad material being used.

From here: http://www.apracing.com/Info.aspx?In...&ProductID=976

An effective method of checking maximum disc operating temperature is by using temperature paints applied to the disc.
A suitable paint kit can be obtained under AP Racing Part No CP2649-1, this kit contains three paints, Green (turns white at 430°C), Orange (turns yellow at 560°C) and Red (turns white at 610°C) plus thinners and brushes


Typically when running within the correct temperature range the Green paint (430°C) will turn throughout, the Orange paint (560°C) 50% to 100% throughout and the Red paint (610°C) turned up to 5mm from each brake face. If the Red paint (610°C) turns throughout, the discs are running too hot. Disc face grooving is also an indication of running too hot

 

^^^ace!

 

All good info but I will disagree with you on the IR thermometer. It's quick and easy track side. For me it's accurate enough as a COMPARISON and I am not about to try and read paint stripes between sessions.

With a car like the s2000 the rotors routinely run 1000+ degrees, you are always going to be overheating the rotors, but the pedal stays tall and you throw away the rotors after 3-4 days.

I see both as good tools with diff issues.