My 2000 itr motor now has close to 70k hard miles on it.
It's currently in my autox car and has a rev limiter upwards of 9200rpm.
I've had Toda b's and most recently C's with Toda valvetrain, toda itb's and a hytech header.

I had been searching for a jrsc to try out this season, and as luck would have it another itr owner wanted to do a trade + cash.

While the deal was in progress, I happened to drive over to a buddy's house and the car died while I was in 2nd gear at no more than 3k rpm - two blocks from my destination.

It was raining and late, so I tried to pop start it in reverse.
No luck. Starter made a funny sound also.

I pulled the valve cover and saw the cam gears out of sync, then gave up and paid the $85 for a tow truck to haul her two blocks.










Later I pulled the head and saw bent exhaust valves on cyl 1 only, along with 17 teeth missing off the Toda timing belt.





So what should I do?

Replace two valves and guides and reinstall?

I also have a spare b16 head that has a fresh 3 angle valve job and .004 decked.

Should I just use that instead?

Anything I should upgrade now while I have the head off?

Replace seals / guides / port and polish?

I can't miss any more events, or I'll be out of the points running for the season, so time is a factor.

 

I say just replace the valves , get a gates blue belt and call it a fix.

 

Was it tensioned too tight? Is this evidence of timing belt wear Toda cams with such steep ramp angles produce? Is it just higher mileage and was time for a new belt? I'd just replace the valves and have someone check out the rest of the head for any signs of wear. Consider it lucky that no real contact, that so often grenades motors, happened. BTW how did you like the Toda B's?

 

Damn Ken that sucks....

Get rid of those cam gears when you do the rebuild. Try to find a set of 1st Gen Toda gears that use the modified factory cromo steel gear. I have seen this happen numerous times with the second Gen gears that are all aluminum.
You should also be fine with a o.e. t-belt once you replace the gears.

 

I'm not trying to make this into a Toda vs x thread.

The fault was all mine, IMO. I left this belt on too long and didn't recheck the tension.
I also left the car out in the elements for its whole life, and being driven in 14 degree weather as well as 98 degree weather doesn't help.

Although I think the Toda belt isn't as strong as the power enterprise belt that I had on there before.

The tensioner and timing belt I replace more often than most people do (~15k miles), and the water pump + tensioner pulley spin like brand new.

The cams are hard to turn - as hard as 12.5mm lift cams with harsh ramp rates + super stiff valve springs should be.

I've been running Toda B's and C's for 10+ years on this motor and haven't had a failure up until this point.

I will continue to run greater tension than oe spec because I've seen plenty of belt failures with high lift cams and stiffer valve springs when the belt IMO is just too loose (they have more slack when the motor is cold).

I haven't experienced any idler pulley issues nor abnormal cam wear at all.
(In fact, there really isn't hardly any wear on the cams despite the many hard track miles.)
I attribute this to my religious use of synthetic oils.

Flew, I loved the B's - dare I say more than the C's with lower cr.

Cmdr, why don't you like the gen2 cam gears?
There is only a little pitting in them.
I also have a set of gen1 cam gears, as well as a set of skunk cam gears.

I'll either use an oem belt or gates, because I'll be using gsr/itr cams with the blower.

 

i agree with what you just said....how long did you have the belt on?!! especially knowing that b's and of course c's shred/snap belts? im running b's right now, i've put about 30000 miles on them and have done 2 toda belts and new tensioners to be on the safe side. I actually just bought toda a2's so my b's and toda belt will be up for sale soon. good luck with the rebuild!

 

The teeth are known to wear on the second gen cam gears. This can lead to the TB slipping or unnecessary wear on the TB. While everything is apart check the cam gears for usual wear. Replace as necessary.

I have cams similar to Toda C's. I had to replace the belt after about 15k to slack build. Jack Harris (P1 Auto) always stresses to replace the TB every three years regardless of mileage with these types of cams. In comparison a $38 belt every three years suddenly becomes cheap insurance.

Since time is a factor I vote for the B16 head. Get the car up and running while you repair the current head. Best of luck sir.

 

I'll have to check my log book as for the amount of miles on the belt.
I know it was a little overdue, but I was lazy and every time I've changed belts previously, they looked brand newish. This, coupled with the fact that I was about to swap out cams and add a blower just had me thinking I'd wait another week or so.

I don't think those cams chew up belts, it's people who don't check the tension.

Why are you downgrading cams?

 

im downgrading because 1) i can't get my car to pass emissions 2) piece of mind and being able to run an oem timing belt 3) i drive my car a lot so it gets expensive replacing timing belts.....i changed out my belt and tensioner twice last year.

 

I would just swap in the b16 head & totally rework the type r head while it's off. Also how is the throttle response with the toda itbs? Compared to a manifold & throttle body setup?

 

Man it sucks to see this. I've been down this road before.
I don't know what kind of time you have, but you can get valve guides and valves next day from Honda. A decent machinist should have guides done in one day for about $5 to $10 a piece.

12204-PR3-305 Intake guide $8
12205-PR3-305 Exhaust guide $8
12210-PZ1-004 Intake seal $2
12211-PZ1-004 Exhaust seal $2
14711-P73-J01 Intake Valve $17
14721-PR3-000 Exhaust valve $30 (you can use B16 Exhaust valves)
90701-679-000 #3 cam cap dowel $2
91302-GE0-000 #3 cam cap oring $2

So, for about $150 worth of oem parts and maybe $80 in machining you can have your ITR head up and running in less than 3 days.


You will makes less power with the B16 head. This I know first hand and I'm sure you do too. If you don't mind that then bolt on the B16 head and get it running that way.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck.

 

Great comment, but I have found that on Toda Belts (I've had two for over 10+ years as well) that going past the OE Tension causes more problems than it solves, especially wear to the gear and teeth itself. Get another Gates, repolish and sell the cams if you'd like (I may be interested in some TODA Cs) and run the Gates belt. you should be fine.

Good luck

 

Since you are going to be using oem cams are you removing the super stiff valve springs?
I would....

 

Yes and no.

I'll be removing the Toda valve springs because I have a lot of miles on them.

I'll be replacing them with a new set of rocket's valve springs because I'll still be revving the **** out of this motor and trying not to have to shift before the braking zone.

Also, boost makes the valves harder to close, so stiffer valve springs help there as well.