hubcentric wheel rings.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: USA
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
This has actually been covered several times. Take solace in knowing they are not needed but if you do decide to run them, don't use plastic.
I had a set of wheels that had plastic rings in and I accidentally left them in the wheel when I stuck them on the car for a race and they melted, deformed, etc.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 196
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From: Canada
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
Hub rings are definitely needed. The clearance between the wheel & hub can be as much as 10mm. The wheel is not properly seated without them. You WILL feel a vibration in your steering wheel without them, and risk having your lug nuts back off with extended driving.
If your wheels are not hub centric, rings are an essential requirement. Especially for racing purposes.
Plastic hub rings are fine for street use, but not under racing circumstances. Use aluminum rings for racing.
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
This is why its important to buy properly sized wheels in the first place.
But in the event you have to use something thats not ... the metal rings should be your only choice.
But in the event you have to use something thats not ... the metal rings should be your only choice.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: MA
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
Yes & no.
Hub rings are definitely needed. The clearance between the wheel & hub can be as much as 10mm. The wheel is not properly seated without them. You WILL feel a vibration in your steering wheel without them, and risk having your lug nuts back off with extended driving.
If your wheels are not hub centric, rings are an essential requirement. Especially for racing purposes.
Hub rings are definitely needed. The clearance between the wheel & hub can be as much as 10mm. The wheel is not properly seated without them. You WILL feel a vibration in your steering wheel without them, and risk having your lug nuts back off with extended driving.
If your wheels are not hub centric, rings are an essential requirement. Especially for racing purposes.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,788
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From: USA
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
From a thread 10 years old:
To further it:
On a 4 lug application @75ft/lbs would be 35,492 lbs of clamping force.
Like illustrated above, something else would fail before your wheel moved against your hub.
I've been racing for 8 years without hubcentric rings so have the several other hundred people I race with. Be careful mounting your wheel, always check your torques and go out on track.
Hubcentric rings are typically needed for... the people who sell hubcentric rings.
It's true that the clamping force of the lug nuts is WAY more than necessary to keep the wheel in place. Some calculations from an engineer I could dig up if I *really* wanted to, done to approximate the picture with the NSX, being 5 lugs @ 75ft-lbs with a steel hub and aluminum wheel (different metals have different coefficients of friction), approximated that it'd take something like 30,000lbs of force to break the friction between the wheel and the hub. That basically means the wheel and the suspension will get damaged before the wheel moves against the hub.
Also note that when the car is cornering, the forces you're looking at most are not vertical loads, but lateral loads. The lateral loads are applied longitudinally along the axis of the lugs.
What you *do* need to be careful of, though, is that if you don't tighten the lugs evenly a little bit at a time (for example, you reef down on one lug nut before tightening the others), the wheel will not be properly centered.
Also note that when the car is cornering, the forces you're looking at most are not vertical loads, but lateral loads. The lateral loads are applied longitudinally along the axis of the lugs.
What you *do* need to be careful of, though, is that if you don't tighten the lugs evenly a little bit at a time (for example, you reef down on one lug nut before tightening the others), the wheel will not be properly centered.
To further it:
Fastener torque/preload values: I pulled them from a handy reference
slide-rule chart. Holo-Krome Company, Lancaster PA, "Socket Screw
Selector". I looked up a 7/16"-14 fastener (WAG- seemed about the same size
as most studs I've dealt with) and then saw that if torqued to the
recommended torque (1,190in-lbs = 100ft-lbs), each would give a preload of
11,830lbs. Scale that preload torque down to 75ft-lbs (common automotive
torque value for lug nuts), and each gives a preload of 8,873lbs. Multiply
by 5 (NSX), and you get 44,360lbs preload. Multiply the preload times the
coefficient of friction to get the total static friction "holding" force.
slide-rule chart. Holo-Krome Company, Lancaster PA, "Socket Screw
Selector". I looked up a 7/16"-14 fastener (WAG- seemed about the same size
as most studs I've dealt with) and then saw that if torqued to the
recommended torque (1,190in-lbs = 100ft-lbs), each would give a preload of
11,830lbs. Scale that preload torque down to 75ft-lbs (common automotive
torque value for lug nuts), and each gives a preload of 8,873lbs. Multiply
by 5 (NSX), and you get 44,360lbs preload. Multiply the preload times the
coefficient of friction to get the total static friction "holding" force.
Like illustrated above, something else would fail before your wheel moved against your hub.
I've been racing for 8 years without hubcentric rings so have the several other hundred people I race with. Be careful mounting your wheel, always check your torques and go out on track.
Hubcentric rings are typically needed for... the people who sell hubcentric rings.
Last edited by rice_classic; Apr 26, 2012 at 11:05 AM.
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
From a thread 10 years old:
To further it:
On a 4 lug application @75ft/lbs would be 35,492 lbs of clamping force.
Like illustrated above, something else would fail before your wheel moved against your hub.
I've been racing for 8 years without hubcentric rings so have the several other hundred people I race with. Be careful mounting your wheel, always check your torques and go out on track.
Hubcentric rings I'm typically needed for... the people who sell hubcentric rings.
To further it:
On a 4 lug application @75ft/lbs would be 35,492 lbs of clamping force.
Like illustrated above, something else would fail before your wheel moved against your hub.
I've been racing for 8 years without hubcentric rings so have the several other hundred people I race with. Be careful mounting your wheel, always check your torques and go out on track.
Hubcentric rings I'm typically needed for... the people who sell hubcentric rings.
I just love this last line
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 196
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From: Canada
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
Typical of the internet ... It's nice that you've been able to produce some numbers to support your theory though.
Congratulations! I'm on my 11th season. So does that make everything you've said irrelevant?
It would seem so
Kids really should ask their parents permission before using the internet and giving improper advice.
It would seem so
Kids really should ask their parents permission before using the internet and giving improper advice.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,788
Likes: 0
From: USA
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
Typical of the internet ... It's nice that you've been able to produce some numbers to support your theory though.
Congratulations! I'm on my 11th season. So does that make everything you've said irrelevant?
It would seem so
Kids really should ask their parents permission before using the internet and giving improper advice.
Congratulations! I'm on my 11th season. So does that make everything you've said irrelevant?
It would seem so
Kids really should ask their parents permission before using the internet and giving improper advice.
So you've done 11 seasons without knowing any better. Good for you dude. You're wrong, we've all been wrong at some point. Deal with it.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,569
Likes: 0
From: MA
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
Typical of the internet ... It's nice that you've been able to produce some numbers to support your theory though.
Congratulations! I'm on my 11th season. So does that make everything you've said irrelevant?
It would seem so
Kids really should ask their parents permission before using the internet and giving improper advice.
Congratulations! I'm on my 11th season. So does that make everything you've said irrelevant?
It would seem so
Kids really should ask their parents permission before using the internet and giving improper advice.
BTW, it's not a theory, it's fact. Break out some engineering books and do some learning.
No Big Whoop
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,120
Likes: 4
From: A little closer to the Ecuator
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
This whole argument is missing a huge fact. Non Hubcentric wheels are prone to vibration not because the wheel moves on the hub after torking the lug nuts, but because the wheel was never trully centered to begin with. You cannot rely 100% on the lug nuts to center the wheel on the hub which is why most ,if not all, OEM wheels are hubcentric. The rings sole purpose is to keep the wheel trully centered against the hub while the lug nuts are tightened.
Disclaimer:
I do not sell hub-centering rings, although I do machine my own.
Disclaimer:
I do not sell hub-centering rings, although I do machine my own.
Last edited by Spaceballsthelunchbox; May 3, 2012 at 05:36 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 317
Likes: 0
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
This whole argument is missing a huge fact. Non Hubcentric wheels are prone to vibration not because the wheel moves on the hub after torking the lug nuts, but because the wheel was never trully centered to begin with. You cannot rely 100% on the lug nuts to center the wheel on the hub which is why most ,if not all, OEM wheels are hubcentric. The rings sole purpose is to keep the wheel trully centered against the hub while the lug nuts are tightened.
Disclaimer:
I do not sell hub-centering rings, although I do machine my own.
Disclaimer:
I do not sell hub-centering rings, although I do machine my own.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,569
Likes: 0
From: MA
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
CN: Tapered lug nuts will center the wheel just fine. If they aren't, you shouldn't be changing your wheels yourself.
Ball seat lug nuts/wheels require a bit more attention to detail, but can easily center the wheel too.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,805
Likes: 1
From: building H2 cars, NY
Re: hubcentric wheel rings.
I have been running without hub centric rings for at least 10 years and racing with out them for 4. Never a problem. I've crewed for multiple endurance cars over the years including an e30 at the devil in the dark 12 hour at njmp. No hub centric rings, no problem.