imagine getting destroyed by this car at the track..
this car has basic mods like ecu tune, koni shocks, brake pad upgrade. some sticky tires
has factory lsd as well.

i have put in so much money and time in my itr.
and we might still think our itr is one of the best FF track car / best handing car ..
but i might have to rethink..
these guys in 100000 dollar cars are getting so frustrated when they see this car in their rear view mirror.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=harjL...9&feature=plcp
i dont know him or the car. i just came across on youtube
and the car is not the same car in the video..
but the same kind

 

depends on the person. on the track nothing dollar for dollar will touch a c5 z06 stock vs stock.

you can make an ITR catch and pass a cobalt ss, you just have to level the playing field with a turbo and forged bottom end on the R

 

what about boosted civic vs this thing..
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LdzY_n3q6Do" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

A friends of mine has the HHR SS, same 2.0ltr motor as the Cobalt. Even though it's a bit heavier it's amazing how quick it is with very little modification. A different FMIC, piping, down pipe, no cat, stock muffler and an ECU re-flash. It makes like 295/320, I think GM's Ecotech motor might be more of a contender than expected.

 

i'm no expert in driving in a road course but that guy is all over the road, he keep adjusting himself in the seat and his steering correction is all screwy, just an observation watching the vid lol

 

If you are serious about this, maybe getting Ss is the right thing to do.

From my point of view driving dynamic of type r will never be surpassed by another production car anywhere close to its price range. Regulation is making this virtual certainty, on top of 32 air bags and self parking assist.
I won't even get into engines these days that manufacturers are forced to use again because of regulation.

Anyway short of $$$$$$ dedicated racing machines, regular Joe will never see another Type R (even from Honda).

That video actually doesn't do anything for Cobalt and if it is representative of what that car can do, I am not sure I understand where you are coming from...

 

I watched the first two minutes so not sure about any behavior after that point but I didn't find him a bad driver. He only adjusted his seating position once and that was at the very start.

 

I wish I could say you're wrong but I'm realizing the same thing. Sad.

 

Are we comparing a 15 year old (1997) ITR or an 11 year old (2001) ITR, to this Cobalt?

Also, how reliable will this Cobalt be, over the next decade? It's an American design and it's destiny is the repair shop.

 

an ITR is an ITR...

#classic

 

Probably even faster if you beat the crap out of it on the track.

 

my love is for the R but i will say my 94 teg has a b20v and my buddy has a 09 cobalt ss (turbo) model only year made stock motor only gm tune running 25 psi and he pulls my car prolly 3 cars easy but if its a turbo model running then id say there quick for what they are if you know how to drive em

 

the quality coming out of GM and ford these days is pretty solid.

if you start racing a lot ANY car will be in the repair shop. since 2007 i've blown up 4 b18c engines. when you get right down to it they are pretty damn delicate and their high rpm nature is just hell on piston rings.

it's easier to keep an engine alive if you build a solid bottom end like that SS or EVO has, keep the rpms down and boost it than it is to spin to 8500rpm.

raise your hand if you've seen an ITR engine go past 150k

because i sure haven't

of course it's possible, if the owner keeps the rpms down the engine could go 200k+ without trouble.

 

i dont think it will last too long with 20 psi..
but i went thru 3 engines in my itr.. with zero boost..
i did have bad luck tho..
this thread is kinda point less but my point is this car is pretty damn nice lol
but i would never trade my itr for one..
b18c5 is like 20 years old technology its not fair to compare it with brand new car ..
my car feels and looks like race car but a slow one haha 191 whp on mustang dyno feels slow these days.. compared to those thing at least 230-240 whp on mustang dyno...

 

Meh that track is so small and gimpy it's hard to compare any cars there. No room for anything to stretch its legs. The lighter car that can brake deeper will win the battles there.

If you are looking for more power the evo's are getting pretty cheap. You can get an Evo 8 for under 10K. Nice evo 9's can be had for around 18-25ish. And you won't be satisfied chasing down an E92 M3. When you start chasing C6 ZO6's, GT3RS, Exige, Ferrari that's when it really gets fun

Having said that ITR's are still very capable on track. What they lack in power, they get back in braking zones and cornering speeds. My ITR can take long sweepers on average about 5mph faster than my evo, just because of the weight. And the car is cheaper to maintain, hassle free and better on gas. The evo costs me at least 3 times more to track/own because it eats 5 gallons of ethanol per 15 minute session. It eats tires and brakes. The evo is fun on track don't get me wrong, but tracking the ITR is so stress free in comparison.

 

Of course the Cobalt SS will be faster than an ITR on an open track. It has significantly more HP. So will a MazdaSpeed3 and most any boosted FWD car that doesn't weigh 2 tons or so.

The Cobalt SS is nothing trick other than a pretty powerful motor. It has the classic GM craptastic interior and spotty build quality. If you are expecting more, be prepared to be let down.

The ITR is still a vastly better handling car. But when you have tracks with straights, HP is going to make up the advantage. I don't see how this is any different than expected.

 

Another thing about watching HPDE video is the level of driver experience has such a wide variety that you really can't say "oh wow that car must be fast if he is chasing down an M3".

I have passed a 2012 GTR in my ITR. Does that mean it's faster? Not at all. The guy driving the GTR had very little experience or was not comfortable at all tracking his car.

I have seen 110hp miatas and 100 hp civics pass cars with three times more power. Thats the fun thing about HPDE in the integra. People don't expect to get passed by you and when you do they think you have something crazy under the hood. That's when I break their heart and tell them it has 170whp.

I take the evo out when I just feel like being a cheater and beating people with brute power. Yah that's fun too, but I think passing people in the ITR is more rewarding.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHcC8...3&feature=plcp

 

Go find me an Evo 8 under 10 grand.
Sure you can find salvage title non running for under 10.

 

There have been a few high mile 2003's for sale on local evo forums at 10K. There is a guy on EvoM with 250K and counting on his stock motor, so I don't think 90-100K is alot. Other people might worry about it, but for a track car it's good for the money.

 

It heavily depends on the driver:

I was chasing a C6 Z06 around Lime Rock yesterday, she wouldn't let me pass. All I have are HP+ pads, RE-11 tires, and an AEM intake.

 

Once you normalize HP/weight, stock for stock the itr would be much faster. If you don't normalize for hp/weight, itr handling may overcome ss hp on some tracks, but depends on the mix of turns vs. straights. On average, ss is going to beat itr just due to power. Why do you think corvettes are so fast compared to much more expensive cars?

 

News flash to some of the ITR owners, it's not the only car in the world. Might be surprising for some of you to grasp. There's no replacing the ITR, but by no means is it competitive with any of the cars in its current price range. The SS/tc cobalts are pretty nuts. Minimal work and theyll beat up on evos around a track too. They have a great chassis, and a very broad usable powerband.

 

Idk about not being competitive with any of the cars in its price range. It is a very old chassis and it is underpowered. The driving experience is what sets it apart mostly. Going fast is another part of the equation...which...IMO isn't as important. Not to say that there aren't some FAST ITRs still out there. Mark from One6's ITR went 1:30s or so around old gingerman. In comparison, a stock Z06 with a professional driver went like 1:33ish and my S2000 (old setup) went like 1:34-1:35ish.

The newer chassis' just tend to give up no creature comforts to go that fast. Fast ITRs are all gutted out and meatboxed...or have a ton of power. It's an old 4cyl. FWD chassis. For what it is...it's quick. The fact that it's still faster than most cars of it's type today is a feat.

 

yeah to get that fast. we had to put in so much money and time for last 10 years.
and there it is.. a pretty much stock car with minimal mod will destroy our cars.. its kinda sad. but that's what technology is all about we can't still expect our 20 year old engineering will beat new ones.