Guys,
Yesterday evening the car refused to start after I was done pumping gas.

Reminder: '93 Hatch with stock ITR swap. P28, tuned, clean.

Here are some facts:

• Seemed like a low battery, since it would click or chatter.
• Could have been the alternator, I thought, because the battery is a fresh Optima Yellow Top (measured 12.9V at rest yesterday, although I understand it may not have had amperage to crank).
• Tried to jump the car, it would crank but no start.
• I hear the main relay click and ECU light goes off.
• I hear the fuel pump prime.
• Pulled a plug wire and saw it sparking near a ground while cranking, so ignition looks good (brand new Dizzy anyways, a couple of months old).
• Last year I resoldered all the solder points on my failing main relay; so just to be positive I went and bought a brand new main relay and installed it. Same issue.
• ECU fuse looks good, but swapped anyways with same Amp fuse ("Option" IIRC)
• ACG(S) fuse looks good, but swapped anyways with same Amp fuse
• Radio kept on turning ON by default when I switched ignition on (I never leave accessories running). Seems like there's no power to make the radio remember the settings (radio station memory gone as well).

This is all I can remember for now. The car is currently parked at my job with a battery tender (BatteryMinder, to be precise) connected to it. Can you recommend any tests I should do? I do have access to tools/voltmeters etc and I can walk outside and try stuff without problems.

Thanks in advance for brainstorming with me!

 

Color of spark? Injectors working and spraying fuel?
I always refer everybody to this link for no start conditions.
No Start Diagnosis Basics

 

Spark was yellowish now that you mention it.
But before concluding that I have weak spark, let me try with a proper spark plug tester. All I did yesterday (at the gas station, limited tools) was sticking a screw driver in the plug boot and keeping it near the valve cover bolt while cranking.

Not sure if the injectors are spraying (I am pretty certain, but I don't want to assume), I'll have to check that as well.

Good points and good link Marc, thanks for sharing.

 

Anything but a bluish white spark is considered to be weak.

 

Maybe fuel issue? Check fuel filter and fuel pressure.

 

Do you have access to another ECU? If so try to start it with another ECU, that may be the problem. Also, the dizzy may be faulty. Contact the seller.

 

Ok, just got back from outside, included a couple of videos.

Fuel pump primes, but yes, I intend on loosening the fuel filter bolt and see if it sprays fuel during cranking.

That's planned as well. I don't have another ECU, but we opened mine and did the smell + visual test. Smells normal, no burn spots on either sides of the logic board, caps look good. I do have another chip in the mail from Kenny (with a more fuel efficient map), so at least I can try another chip.

Here are some videos we just took outside. Please note, sun was very bright, we tried to put a shadow over the spark during filming as best as we could.

In this video, we couldn't see any spark with naked eye, but now that I look at the videos I seem to see something...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27NWX2mLFjk

Another video of the spark plug while cranking:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw8Qh4iwNiA

In this video, I stuck a screw driver inside the plug wire.
The arc is clearly visible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZKaarv-mhU

 

check your igniter and coil

 

You think there's still a chance the dizzy might be the culprit even after seeing the videos?

 

In the first video I didn't see any spark. In the second VERY little at the end. Last video I saw it but it was extremely weak. I'd say spark is the issue here. It may be the ignitor, or coil, but don't rule out a faulty distributor. I'd try a borrowed distributor, or just give that one back and get a new one (if you purchased from a company)

Also, did you check to see that fuel is getting to, and through the fuel injectors? From my experience with spark, it's very strong, clearly visable. (I've shocked myself like a moron a few times. lol)

 

Ok, first. When you check spark with the actual spark plug, you have to ground the body of the spark plug to a ground location. So, that means you want to touch the threads of the spark plug against a metal bracket or valve cover bolt, stud or something like that. Hold the threads against a ground, then crank.

Using the screw driver was an idea, but the resistance is WAY different than a plug, so although it looked very weak it may not be.

All that being said, from most of your description, it does kinda sound like a distributor. Chances of ECU problem are much less. Get a spark tester from a parts store for like $5-$10 and try it again, or just hold the plug body against a ground like stated above. If it's not blue, it's weak.

I doubt it's a fuel issue, one way you can check that is by spraying a little carb cleaner in t-body and trying to start it. If it's a fuel only issue, then it should start up and stay running as long as you're using the carb cleaner, but I'd only do that for a SHORT time as a test.

Did the spark plugs smell at all like fuel?

Now that I reread your post, it's possible COULD be a fuel pump issue. Sometimes when cold fuel hits a tank at fill up, it shocks the pump and kills it. I've seen that MANY times, but always on domestics, never on a Honda.

Try the carb cleaner, and the spark test, separately. I'd probably try the carb cleaner first. You can even spray it in the vent hole in the intake tube, should still work. Have someone start to crank it, and spray it for like 4-5 sec. and see what happens. If it don't start and run, check the spark.

Normally I'd lean toward the Distributor (still am really), but the with the scenario of failure, it COULD be fuel. Thanks for the PM, keep us informed. Feel free to ask anymore questions.

 

[QUOTE=furious94ls;47109872]In the first video I didn't see any spark. In the second VERY little at the end. Last video I saw it but it was extremely weak. I'd say spark is the issue here. It may be the ignitor, or coil, but don't rule out a faulty distributor. I'd try a borrowed distributor, or just give that one back and get a new one (if you purchased from a company)

Also, did you check to see that fuel is getting to, and through the fuel injectors? From my experience with spark, it's very strong, clearly visable. (I've shocked myself like a moron a few times. lol)[/QUOT

from lookin at the vids i would start at your your dizzy....gluck bro

 

What did you do Walter!?!?!?

You killed it

I'm leaning with one of the earlier posters, sounds like the distributor or the fuel somehow. It honestly sounds funny when it's turning over.

 

Car is fixed! It turned out being the battery guys. I became suspicious after leaving it on a BatteryMinder for great part of the day and still being unable to crank. So I took the Optima Yellow Top (15 months old, btw) to get tested and sure enough, it was bad.

I got a brand new one under warranty on Friday, put it in and the car yesterday and she started right up! Needless to say I was very relieved. It's amazing how easy it is to rule out a battery just because the car wouldn't start even with a jump. Must have been a shorted cell or something.

That was going to be my next try if I hadn't resolved the issue. And yes, I shocked myself too while I was making those videos. It was funny, I wish I'd have caught it on camera.

Thanks for clarifying. I actually wondered about that, but wound up keeping it up to get a clearer picture. Next time I am checking for spark I'll make sure to ground the body of the spark plug.

Thanks man, but thankfully it was just the battery.

Perhaps because it was being jumped? Hey, your car doesn't sound that much different!

Thanks everyone for brainstorming with me, for taking the time to make suggestions and thanks again Juevi for a great troubleshooting guide!