Here's our dilemma. ANYBODY done an F23 in a road race car?

We've decided that "chump car" series offers a LOT of track time for the dollar spent. So we're gonna give that a shot this summer. up to 2 hours continuous in the drivers seat, the thought boggles my mind.

All the cars that fit the series rules basically amount to you running a d16z6 at best in any "light" Honda related chassis (ef, crx, eg, dx, ex, etc). With virtually no mods, or there are huge penaltys.

I'm of the opinion that an F23 is considerably cheaper, easier to get and has ***-loads of hp and torque compared to our friend the Z6

Hmotorsonline specs:
30037 - F23A Long Block (Accord 98-01)
150Hp 152Trq Replacement for F23A1
$ 575.00 Plus shipping and handling

Willing to do the f22 as a backup plan if it's largely viewed as better than f23a
33041 - F22B VTEC Long Block (Accord EX 94-97)
145Hp 147Trq Replacement for F22B1
$ 599.00 Plus shipping and handling

Should be noted that most races in this series are LONG endurance races, 8 to 24 hours. Most people, to make the cars survive adopt policies of short shifting a few 1000 rpm, etc. So the engines are not constantly flogged to redline for say 10 hours at a crack. Foot to the floor and short shifted, relatively carefully.

Putting that last paragraph out there because the engine will not be boosted, supercharged, NOS'd or anything done internally. Run as is.

If it costs more than $700 at Hmotors.... it'll never pass tech.

Gonna be in either an EG or a EX.

 

I have
....with an f22a1 head...

Keep the rev's below 8 and a stone stocker should live.

Make an oil pan baffle... there is nothing close to one from the factory.

Mines in a civic..mated to a D trans. Ive done Close to 60 days one the current bottom end. They do FINE

HIT ME UP if you need anything...doing my first lemons race next month, and hope to do a chump car race with our car later this year. (Its not the f23car though)

 

Ive never paid more than 150$ for one either

 

Peeps in Great Falls also maybe doing chumpcar, you shooting for Spokane?

 

my complete f22a1 has gone over 200k street miles and 20k track miles, and it is still going.

 

Appreciate that, thank you. Lemons, Chump, whatever it takes, I just want some real seat time for a change. Being as others in the thread might find it helpful, here are a few quick questions.

a) Does the f23 bolt directly to a D series trans?
b) Any links to an f23 oil pan baffle thread or video you may have seen?
c) I think it uses H series mounts, is that accurate? I've only been reading up on it for a day or so, I'm on the long end of the learning curve.
d) Hows the power compared to the d? Gotta be excellent feeling with 150+ torque

Yep, the twin 8 hour races first weekend in May in Spokane. If we like it, we'll do the 24 hour race in July.

Hopefully it's Rowen and Stucker and that crowd working in great falls. I've got James listed as our 4th driver. I told him we're already driving through great falls on the way down, could pick him up, and toss their car in my trailer.

I took our z6 eg coupe out today and kinda flogged it. See how it's gonna hold up. Ran 17.1@81.2mph the 4-3 downshift grinds at over 5 grand, surprisingly not on the upshift.

 

I lose track of who's who on here. are you the John that bought that Z6 off me? Interested in doing some driving? If James flakes out, we could use another driver. And you have EG coupe tuning skills.

I might have to pick your brain for cheap shock and spring ideas.

Be nice to get 2 teams together for Spokane, nice to pull the resources, be a lot of fun, for the buck.

 

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Honda-...-H-SERIES.html

 

what if you buy a z6 from junk yard and it was already built up lol. is that legal? my old 145 whp 112 ft-lbs (dyno jet SAE) sohc vtec was stolen and it sat at the yard for a while. i'm sure it is long gone by now but i wonder i bought it back for $500 from the yard would that be considered lemons legal??

 

Rowen? Bring some more engines!! LOL

 

Yeah I'm John....... i have that white EK coupe that ran with ya in Lewistown, and yeah I'm the guy that bought the wrecked green EK 4dr from ya last year..

 

a, you need an adapter plate much like the h2b

b, I never had an issue with the f, like I said I put a ton of track miles and was probably faster in a few of the corners than I am now with the h. That said an accusump shouldn't hurt.

d and drag, I was around 2650 when I took the car to the quarter mile track across from the roval we were running in darlington. It ran a 15.0 with the toyo's and my track suspension. Either wheel hop or spin with those and the 130whp 137wtq.

 

what about a b20? mounts would be cheaper too. could always go vtec in future

 

B20 is a decent option, but B trannys carry a good price tag, and that puts it out of line compared to a D.

 

I've got an F23 in a 99 Accord coupe, with a 5 sp. These are long stroke engines, so it's got nice low RPM torque. I often shift at 1600-1800 RPM; I'm getting 30 mpg in town (that's not a bad thing in endurance racing either). They are pretty robust, this engine has ~185,000 miles on it and runs well.

One of the hmotors engines should be good; it'll have a lot fewer miles than most of the junk yard engines.

If you don't rev it (and there isn't much available over 6000), what's the use of a crank scraper? Isn't windage a high RPM problem?

 

If I recall correctly the H mounts are the same as the F mounts, with the exception of the driver side mount (but dont quote me on that).

I would be interested in being on a team, though I would be coming from the opposite direction if that matters.

I also am sitting on a full H22 swap that I need to get rid of.........

-Harley

 

Atmosfear there might be a spot on my brothers team. Nothing is for certain yet, but he is looking to put a car together soon. I live in the Puget Sound area and I am meeting him in Spokane. Are you interested?

 

Im part of a team that has a 400K+ ef with a d16a6 and its gone through 3 24 hours, with a HG swap during the saftey stop at the last 24.

I can say the car is old and worn but still put up a decent fight, and the a6 was powerful enough in the corners to out manuver and pass most cars, although very lacking in the straights.

and i would say fairly reliable considering it was only short shifted ~500rpm and had been in the car for at least 100k before it was converted into a chump/lemons car

although i drive accords on the same track with h and f engines, and can say our team has been considering an f22a6 swap. although weight was our biggest concern right now our car has made it on a single set of tires for each 24, which is not common, but it sits at 2025# right now w/out driver

it seems the chumpcar metality is slow and steady in the corners and blast off on the straights so you have hondas and nissans driving like mad trying to keep momentum while constantly being blocked by some hideous mash up of a sawzall and a volvo... and as soon as you hit the straights the thing takes off and your stuck at his slow pace through the next 2-3 turns.

thats been a given in every race we have done, sometimes putting us in situations that we really should be avoiding... but after 1.25hrs of your 2 hour stint being spend yelling MOVE! the inside grass seems ok.

if changing tires is no concern, i would say get as much tq as possible and save your team some road rage.

 

Yes. PM me so we can exchange contact info.

 

sort of, the blocks are externally the same. So the mounts for one will work on the other.

 

Good advice from a seasoned veteran. Much appreciated.

 

Whats the tire to run in Chump? I would assume 615k's?

As far as the F22/23 goes, I'm pretty sure they only bolt up to F&H series trans. Mounts for an H will work with the F. But I don't agree with the F setup unless its already in the car( ie accord or prelude). I'm trying to figure out how it would be "valued". Now I know your good at these things so I'll sit back and watch.

 

Seems that's the tire to run if you're buying new tires. My attack on how it's valued would be to show that it's from the same family, Honda inline 4. Not anything silly like Nissan 6 cylinder. And the F22 family is hella cheap. People tend to hoard the d16z6. Nobody cares about the accord motor.

So it's not triple the price of a Z6, it's gonna be the same or less. (not what a person picks one up for from some random dude), gotta be something like Hmotorsonline. So you can compare pricing.

i think if I can prove I paid less for it, and made my own mounts (they'll ding you the price of the mounts if you buy them), I don't think we'll get ding'd for value for the F-swap. 130 to 147whp that's not a ridiculous amount of improvement, not like going from 130 to 220. So I think it will fly with the tech guys. It's reasonable. and the math works for finances.

AND, I might add, to be able to pick up an f22 all day long from h-motors with only 30,000 miles on it for $599, doesn't even pay to rebuild the Z6.

Right now, the plan is to finish this coupe, and build a spare car out of an EG I've got that needs to be put on the frame rack.

I think it's easier to build a spare car, than figure out every possible spare part you might need and bring them all. Gonna start the cage this weekend. and learn more about the F-series and how H parts intertwine with it.

 

Yeah thats what I've found for z6 and y8 esp. They are hard to find anymore. I have a few heads that I've kept through the years. But I think our car will be a plane jane ol D15/16.

I'll trade ya a fairly good shape F22a6 for a cage seems like the stock car dudes are rampin up around here and too busy to build me a decent cage. Almost to the point of buying my own stuff and doing it myself.

 

how heavy is it? if you had to guess compared to a D? Never mind if it moves the weight forward in the car. Just curious.

This cage, for Honda challenge / nasa? or chump stuff?

oooooo, cage work, sucky. There's derby car cage work... stock car cage work... street car cage work, proper mild steel race car cage work... and then moly cage work. ...lol...

Seems like most places I know, basic nhra 8.50 style cage in a civic is about $1000 in labor. It's the little things that eat up time.

I'm already thinking the door bars on this Chump car, most of a day of piddly fitting.