How to Improve This Build?
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 81
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How to Improve This Build?
Firstly I'm going to apologize for the lengthy post.
Some info about the car taken directly from the previous owner's ad which can be seen here.
More pics can also be seen here.
The car was built for competing in Targa NL, however it never did with the current power plant. Previously it had a turbo setup which proved to be unreliable and the owner had a difficult time making the car last the full week without some type of engine failure.
I was fortunate enough to win a free entry to Targa at my local autox club this past summer so I'll be using this car in Targa NL 2012. (Hence the reason for buying the car.)
Here's what I want from the engine: Peak power somewhere around 7-7.5k with around 200whp if reasonable.
My concern has to do with the top end mainly. The head is a B16 head which was ported by portflow, it seems to have a diff IM, and it has a giant 3" exhaust from when it was turbo. I feel like these mods would push the peak power up past 8000 RPM which is the current rev limiter. I am willing to change the rev limiter however I don't think it would be a great idea given the dimensions of the bottom end.
How can I fix this problem? (If I even have one.)
P.S. Maybe someone could take a look at the pics and identify the IM for me?
Some info about the car taken directly from the previous owner's ad which can be seen here.
More pics can also be seen here.
Engine:
- Built Ls/Vtec motor (built and tuned for 91 Octane)
Eagle rods
CP pistons 84mm 11.5:1 C:R
B18A 84mm Golden Eagle sleeved block
ACL main/rod Bearings and thrust washers
B16A1 Head ported by Portflow USA
Cometic Headgasket
All new OEM Honda gaskets and seals (absolutely everything in/around the engine).
New ARP Headstuds
OEM Type R Oil Pump
OEM VTEC water pump
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Aeromotive FPR with Gauge
RC 750cc Injectors
GM 3 Bar MAP sensor
Updated OEM H22 LMA's
OEM B16A Valvetrain only 2 yrs old (springs, retainers, valves)
New Heavy duty Radiator
All new OEM heater hoses, thermostat, Upper rad hose (all new this build)
Tuned Using eCtune
Full 3" exhaust from cat back using a Magnaflow 3" straight through muffler
Redline currently set at 8k RPM
Also, from looking at the IM it doesn't appear to be stock, although I'm not sure what it is.
Driveline:
- Drive Shaft Shop 500HP Axles
- Bully "Stage 4" 4 Puck disc with ACT Xtreme duty pressure plate
- ACT Prolite Flywheel
- Integra Type R Limited Slip Differential with 4.4:1 Final drive.
Interior/Exterior:
- Custom 6 point Cage (New upgrades last year including double bar side protection)
- Leaf Racewear "Camlock" 6 point harness w/3" belts (dates are up and these will not pass spec this year)
- Terratrip 202plus (2 wheel probes)
- Autometer Shift light (7000rpm shift pill but motor is good for 8000rpm though)
- Manual rad fan switch (work automatically as well)
- Custom Aluminum skid plate
- Sparco Sprint V Seats
- Momo Steering wheel
Brakes/Wheels/Tires:
- Front -> 12.2" Wilwood 2 peice rotors (aluminum hats) with Dynalite Calipers using Hawk DTC-30 Pads
- Rear -> Upgraded 10.9" rear rotors using relocated stock calipers and Hawk DTC-30 pads
- Stainless Steel flex lines front/rear
- DOT 5 Racing brake fluid (its Blue but I can't quite remember the brand)
- American Racing Style 193 Wheels painted "Porsche 911 GT3 RS Green" (dont ask for the paint code)
- Toyo Proxes RA-1 205/40R17. (only a couple of hundred KM's on them)
** Car comes with a spare set of Hawk HP+ pads for front and rear **
Suspension:
- Hotbits DT1 rally Suspension
Adjustable Dampers
Full coil over setup allows for height adjustment
Extremely tough gear! Two thumbs way up!
- Energy suspension bushings
- Full front camber control using Skunk2 Pro series upper control arms
- Full rear camber control using Eibach kit (high quality peice)
- New sway bar bushings and endlinks front and rear
- Built Ls/Vtec motor (built and tuned for 91 Octane)
Eagle rods
CP pistons 84mm 11.5:1 C:R
B18A 84mm Golden Eagle sleeved block
ACL main/rod Bearings and thrust washers
B16A1 Head ported by Portflow USA
Cometic Headgasket
All new OEM Honda gaskets and seals (absolutely everything in/around the engine).
New ARP Headstuds
OEM Type R Oil Pump
OEM VTEC water pump
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Aeromotive FPR with Gauge
RC 750cc Injectors
GM 3 Bar MAP sensor
Updated OEM H22 LMA's
OEM B16A Valvetrain only 2 yrs old (springs, retainers, valves)
New Heavy duty Radiator
All new OEM heater hoses, thermostat, Upper rad hose (all new this build)
Tuned Using eCtune
Full 3" exhaust from cat back using a Magnaflow 3" straight through muffler
Redline currently set at 8k RPM
Also, from looking at the IM it doesn't appear to be stock, although I'm not sure what it is.
Driveline:
- Drive Shaft Shop 500HP Axles
- Bully "Stage 4" 4 Puck disc with ACT Xtreme duty pressure plate
- ACT Prolite Flywheel
- Integra Type R Limited Slip Differential with 4.4:1 Final drive.
Interior/Exterior:
- Custom 6 point Cage (New upgrades last year including double bar side protection)
- Leaf Racewear "Camlock" 6 point harness w/3" belts (dates are up and these will not pass spec this year)
- Terratrip 202plus (2 wheel probes)
- Autometer Shift light (7000rpm shift pill but motor is good for 8000rpm though)
- Manual rad fan switch (work automatically as well)
- Custom Aluminum skid plate
- Sparco Sprint V Seats
- Momo Steering wheel
Brakes/Wheels/Tires:
- Front -> 12.2" Wilwood 2 peice rotors (aluminum hats) with Dynalite Calipers using Hawk DTC-30 Pads
- Rear -> Upgraded 10.9" rear rotors using relocated stock calipers and Hawk DTC-30 pads
- Stainless Steel flex lines front/rear
- DOT 5 Racing brake fluid (its Blue but I can't quite remember the brand)
- American Racing Style 193 Wheels painted "Porsche 911 GT3 RS Green" (dont ask for the paint code)
- Toyo Proxes RA-1 205/40R17. (only a couple of hundred KM's on them)
** Car comes with a spare set of Hawk HP+ pads for front and rear **
Suspension:
- Hotbits DT1 rally Suspension
Adjustable Dampers
Full coil over setup allows for height adjustment
Extremely tough gear! Two thumbs way up!
- Energy suspension bushings
- Full front camber control using Skunk2 Pro series upper control arms
- Full rear camber control using Eibach kit (high quality peice)
- New sway bar bushings and endlinks front and rear
I was fortunate enough to win a free entry to Targa at my local autox club this past summer so I'll be using this car in Targa NL 2012. (Hence the reason for buying the car.)
Here's what I want from the engine: Peak power somewhere around 7-7.5k with around 200whp if reasonable.
My concern has to do with the top end mainly. The head is a B16 head which was ported by portflow, it seems to have a diff IM, and it has a giant 3" exhaust from when it was turbo. I feel like these mods would push the peak power up past 8000 RPM which is the current rev limiter. I am willing to change the rev limiter however I don't think it would be a great idea given the dimensions of the bottom end.
How can I fix this problem? (If I even have one.)
P.S. Maybe someone could take a look at the pics and identify the IM for me?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: How to Improve This Build?
Here's what I want from the engine: Peak power somewhere around 7-7.5k with around 200whp if reasonable.
My concern has to do with the top end mainly. The head is a B16 head which was ported by portflow, it seems to have a diff IM, and it has a giant 3" exhaust from when it was turbo. I feel like these mods would push the peak power up past 8000 RPM which is the current rev limiter. I am willing to change the rev limiter however I don't think it would be a great idea given the dimensions of the bottom end.
How can I fix this problem? (If I even have one.)
My concern has to do with the top end mainly. The head is a B16 head which was ported by portflow, it seems to have a diff IM, and it has a giant 3" exhaust from when it was turbo. I feel like these mods would push the peak power up past 8000 RPM which is the current rev limiter. I am willing to change the rev limiter however I don't think it would be a great idea given the dimensions of the bottom end.
How can I fix this problem? (If I even have one.)
- ported b16a1 by portflow
- i don't recognize the IM, maybe someone else will, looks fine for your goals. not to short runners or to big plenum.
- looks to have a hytech replica header
- 3" exhaust is
yes even for NA and it increases torque everywhere!- strangely there are no cams mentioned, but they are a vital piece of info! but seeing the stock b16 valvetrain i'd say they are stockers.
so the only thing you'll need is:
Skunk2 PRO1's + matching valvetrain + adj. cam gears and a good dynotune!
good thing is you won't even have to open up the engine for this and 200whp will be a conservative goal if tuned well!!!
btw: if the bottom end is built proper you should have no issues revving to 9500+rpm constantly
Re: How to Improve This Build?
with a long post like that you should BOLD your questions so it's easier to understand what your asking.
Q:
Is your intention to learn more about the car to see if you should buy it or not?
How much power is it currently making?
What cams is he running.....that's the game changer on if it will make 200-210whp or should be making +240whp.
That IM is a discontinued AEBS cast intake manifold of a skunk2/ITR replica. Nothing wrong with it but i'm sure there is a better option out there for better mid-range.
Q:
Is your intention to learn more about the car to see if you should buy it or not?
How much power is it currently making?
What cams is he running.....that's the game changer on if it will make 200-210whp or should be making +240whp.
That IM is a discontinued AEBS cast intake manifold of a skunk2/ITR replica. Nothing wrong with it but i'm sure there is a better option out there for better mid-range.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,637
Likes: 4
From: Seahawks WA, USA
Re: How to Improve This Build?
Thats a first gen Skunk2 IM. Looked very close to an ITR but had the lines on the top of the plenum.
I would look into the King motorsports performer x and some pro 2's
I would look into the King motorsports performer x and some pro 2's
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: How to Improve This Build?
at least cram in the PRO1's and have fun at the track!!!
p.s. quite important, how much are you looking for to spend?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 732
Likes: 0
Re: How to Improve This Build?
200hp will be pretty easy with that set up granted you take everyones advice and find out what cams its running (im assuming since the post said OEM valvetrain its running stock cams. Stock cams will not let you have the full potential of all the mods currently on that motor.
Only other thoughts i have would be if you plan on racing it and reving high i would consider getting a bottom end girdle but thats just me.
Only other thoughts i have would be if you plan on racing it and reving high i would consider getting a bottom end girdle but thats just me.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Re: How to Improve This Build?
First I'd like to thank you guys for the quick replies!
I'd like to keep it under 1k CAD out of my pocket. By that I mean any parts I sell would add to that 1k.
Can I get a second opinion on this? I'd like to avoid opening the engine if at all possible.
You guys seem pretty confident that my peak power won't be too high, so I'm pleased about that. I'm going to take a look around for a used IM and maybe cams now too. Which cams would be best for this application? I seem to have 2 votes for the Pro 1's and 1 vote for the Pro 2's.
Should have mentioned this before but one major downfall is the LS transmission so I'm looking at a big drop in RPM going into 4th gear. This is part of my reasoning for wanting at least a little mid range.
p.s. quite important, how much are you looking for to spend?
Only other thoughts i have would be if you plan on racing it and reving high i would consider getting a bottom end girdle but thats just me.
You guys seem pretty confident that my peak power won't be too high, so I'm pleased about that. I'm going to take a look around for a used IM and maybe cams now too. Which cams would be best for this application? I seem to have 2 votes for the Pro 1's and 1 vote for the Pro 2's.
Should have mentioned this before but one major downfall is the LS transmission so I'm looking at a big drop in RPM going into 4th gear. This is part of my reasoning for wanting at least a little mid range.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: How to Improve This Build?
sell the oem ****
and get it tuned
happy racing
on the pro1 or pro2 debate...
pro2's are also good for this build, but i recomended the pro1's because you wanted peak power that low. with pro2's you'll be making power way beyond that, but then again, that's a good thing... but i would'nt run the pro2's without opening up the engine to check V2V/P2V.
on the girdle subject, keep redline @ 9500rpm and there should'nt be a problem.
tranny wise... ouch that tranny is really going to hurt/annoy you. get atleast a b16 tranny, preferable with a gsr 2nd gear (close ratio oem gearbox
) and a 4.785 fd or shorter!!!the tranny might even be a better upgrade then the cams if you have to choose.......
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Re: How to Improve This Build?
1k means cams/valvetrain/camgears
sell the oem ****
and get it tuned
happy racing
on the pro1 or pro2 debate...
pro2's are also good for this build, but i recomended the pro1's because you wanted peak power that low. with pro2's you'll be making power way beyond that, but then again, that's a good thing... but i would'nt run the pro2's without opening up the engine to check V2V/P2V.
on the girdle subject, keep redline @ 9500rpm and there should'nt be a problem.
tranny wise... ouch that tranny is really going to hurt/annoy you. get atleast a b16 tranny, preferable with a gsr 2nd gear (close ratio oem gearbox ) and a 4.785 fd or shorter!!!
the tranny might even be a better upgrade then the cams if you have to choose.......
sell the oem ****
and get it tuned
happy racing
on the pro1 or pro2 debate...
pro2's are also good for this build, but i recomended the pro1's because you wanted peak power that low. with pro2's you'll be making power way beyond that, but then again, that's a good thing... but i would'nt run the pro2's without opening up the engine to check V2V/P2V.
on the girdle subject, keep redline @ 9500rpm and there should'nt be a problem.
tranny wise... ouch that tranny is really going to hurt/annoy you. get atleast a b16 tranny, preferable with a gsr 2nd gear (close ratio oem gearbox
) and a 4.785 fd or shorter!!!the tranny might even be a better upgrade then the cams if you have to choose.......
I'm afraid of what the trans will cost haha. I live in Newfoundland which is an island with a population of about 500k. Because of this shipping anything is expensive, especially a transmission and desirable transmission such as the b16 are hard to come by.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: How to Improve This Build?
9500rpm is quite normal in a vtec honda engine.
bone stock B18C(GSR/ITR)/B16 short blocks rev to 9250rpms all day long (rod bolts are the limiting factor here, built shortblocks have no issues with 9500rpm and above depending on the stroke/girdle/damper/weight of rotating assembly.
only thing you'll have to do is upgrade the valvetrain, the cam choice will be the deciding factor for you, powerband wise.
for the gearing....
with your current tranny your running 200mph at 9000rpm in fifth, and almost 150mph in 4th. i think you never reach 5th and rarely use 4th, wich is a pitty...
with a b16 tranny and a 4.928FD you'll have a topspeed of 159mph @9500rpm (150mph @ 9000rpm), and if you use a gsr 2nd gear you fall back at around 7000rpm at every shift (if you shift between 9000-9500rpm). this picture would work VERY well with some PRO2's.
but for the current setup i'd say PRO1's so you won't have to open it up
bone stock B18C(GSR/ITR)/B16 short blocks rev to 9250rpms all day long (rod bolts are the limiting factor here, built shortblocks have no issues with 9500rpm and above depending on the stroke/girdle/damper/weight of rotating assembly.
only thing you'll have to do is upgrade the valvetrain, the cam choice will be the deciding factor for you, powerband wise.
for the gearing....
with your current tranny your running 200mph at 9000rpm in fifth, and almost 150mph in 4th. i think you never reach 5th and rarely use 4th, wich is a pitty...
with a b16 tranny and a 4.928FD you'll have a topspeed of 159mph @9500rpm (150mph @ 9000rpm), and if you use a gsr 2nd gear you fall back at around 7000rpm at every shift (if you shift between 9000-9500rpm). this picture would work VERY well with some PRO2's.
but for the current setup i'd say PRO1's so you won't have to open it up
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Re: How to Improve This Build?
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: How to Improve This Build?
for my mates sleeved LS-vtec i advised a girdle also, but has more to do with the ability to rev as far as the turbo will make power (10+k)
without opening the engine he's limited to pro1's anyway (pro2 need V2V and P2V), pro1's will complement his setup very nice and won't require revving to the moon
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