Hi people,

I haven't posted on here much, i spend most of my time on EK9.org.

I have a high compression B18c which is making approx 35whp over the stock engine i had with IHE.

Here is my problem.

Power stops at 8000rpm... I have had my map looked at and its apparantly ok although a little conservative on my ignition timing.

Its tuned on 99 octane and is religously run on this.

Here is the engine spec

Engine

JDM B18C-R 13.2:1 CR built with

Wiseco Semi-Coated Slipper Style racing pistons
IBspec RODS
TODA Spec C Cams
SUPERTECH B-Series competition valve-springs and retainers
Viton stem seals (Inc new guides)
A1Tech headstuds
Bosch Injector Dynamics 725cc ultimate injectors
Hondata S300 ECU
AEM True time cam gears
Mugen baffled sump
Setrab 19 Row oil cooler
Mugen 4-2-1 manifold (modified true 2.5" internal dia)
Thermotec cool it heat wrap
Skunk2 gen2 Intake manifold (Port matched to 72mm)
BDL 72mm throttle body
AEM V2 induction kit
Koyo Full width Radiator
Endyn breather/Oil catch can
Spoon N1 style Custom made exhaust system ID 2.5"
Spoon HT leads
Vibrant breather oil cap

Here is the dyno video which also shows the graph. As you can see my torque drops off sharply at 8000rpm. Where these cams should really be going for it.

The cams are dialed into the correct spec from Toda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cc2z...ure=plpp_video

I am stuck i don't know what else to do...

 

Good to see you posted up Ian You should get some good help from here.

 

Thanks mate, i hope so...

 

Id maybe say the header or exhaust is what's holding it back. I can't see anything else that would maybe the v2?

 

Good point on the v2. Ian, don't know why I hadn't spotted this in your spec list before. Long pipe induction kits don't work well at high rpm's what you need is 3" diameter short ram induction pipe with a bpi velocity stack

 

I agree with the v2, but i still think there more to it, specially on the exhaust side. I think that header is only good for a mild NA setup.

Anyone got any thoughts on the exhaust side of things (bearing in mind the camshafts he's using) ?

ALLMOTOR, where are you at...

 

That's what I was thinking. Those are the only things that could be holding it back

 

First thing that stuck out to me was the header and the V2 intake

 

Find a different intake

 

That header is too small for that much compression and the size cams/induction you're running. You need to look into headers that guys run on 2.0L setups with a motor like yours. The smsp B19, skunk2 alpha or even a big tube replica will work wonders. As for the intake I have seen nothing but improvements when guys switch to a 3" SRI with BPi stack. Your motor is big enough a 3.5" SRI may even perform better. If noise isn't an issue a true 3" exhaust will net you some decents gains as well.
A sharp drop like that means there is a bottleneck somewhere. I would be curious to see how a ported IM would make this motor respond...I think the S2 it hiding a few ponies as well.
Those are surprisingly low for being run on a dynopack
Just curious what are the cams degreed in at? Almost seems like the exhaust side is fighting itself as well.

 

i second the big tube rep. I had a built b20 with the same problems, had some junky *** dc header do a restrictive muffler. I upgraded to a hytech big tube rep to 2.5 in exhaust and noticed incedible gains across the entire powerband, but especially in the higher rpms. i would start there as it is probably the cheapest part to change. those replica headers sell on ebay for under 150 bucks most of the time.

 

As the above, i would suggest its the header/intake thats restricting you.

 

Should be easy to figure where your restriction is. I am not sure how much additional power you were hoping to make with just bolt-ons, cams, and compression. I would say that with the your setup and runnning Toda C's, restriction is probably your stock OEM head. It can only flow so much before it starts to choke.

Changing out to just a 3" intake on the dyno should be easy and shouldn't cost anything, thats if you already or have access to a 3" pipe.

Before spending money on purchasing a header, put it on the dyno again and just do some runs open header. If that shows gains then the problem really isn't your header, sure you might gain more whp from a different header but you might not if that wasn't the problem to begin with. Other than dyno time, you won't be spending money on new parts that might or might not fix the problem.

IMO, steps i'd take would be:
1. Find a 3" intake and just use a filter on the end for now, you can always get a vstack later, to see if that makes a difference in the higher rpms.

2. At the same dyno session, get a baseline pull with the exhaust, then do open header and see if there are gains.

If there are minimal or no gains then it comes down to your head.

Just my 2 cents.

 

So if he changes the header and intake piping what are we talking 10whp maybe 15whp. I think some else is wrong.
Did a leak down and compression test come back OK?
Maybe a Performer X manifold will help carry the power out a bit more as well.

 

I think its mainly back pressure related with the manifold been the issue. Back pressure and overlap don't work well.

 

Thanks everyone for there input so far.

It's not so my the gains i'm looking for but more for the car to make power where these cams are intended not to peak before 8k.

We no its not the exhaust system as we have changed that from a genuine spoon system to a custom true 2.5 inch. Re tuned and the power remained the same... If anything I lost a couple of whp.

General feeling is the header... I am in contact with DNR in the UK and they are quoting me for a black works header, custom intake with velocity stack tuned on the dyno, and retune.

But has anyone got anything the can recommend/companies? I have contacted a few that make try y's but no one answers my emails from the states...

Thanks in advance

Ian

 

What's your original tuner saying (the one that built and tuned this) ? These kind of things should of been noticed and suggested from the start. You wouldn't of had all this BS if it was with you running up and down the country spending even more money.

BTW, i thought your exhaust was 2.75" ?

 

Isn't the blackworks just a Hytech replica? You should be able find a hytech rep for cheaper than what blackwork's charging. At those prices and budget I would work with changing out the intake first for just some 3" piping and a velocty stack, dropping the exhaust will help carry the powerband further too, maybe another 3-500 rpms or so, not sure if you are going to get it to peak at 9k though.

 

On th exhaust tuner wanted 3" exhaust builder advised it would fall flat on its **** as it need to scavenge the exhaust gases out in order to increase volcity. He builds exhausts for touring cars and he advised the ones he'd built here 2.5" running over 250bhp. He genuinely sounded like he new what he was talking about.

As for the rest of it, I lost faith with tuner after he said ditching that spoon would make a massive difference. It made f all. He has advised to chane the header but he also suggested the V2.

I also need somewhere closer to home. Traveling 200 miles with 2 cars then a return home then doing it all again to collect the cars costs lots of pounds in fuel alone.

So maybe the skunk 2 alpha? Although not major convicted on the design. If anyone can point me in the direction of companies willing to ship I'd e very great full.

I think the header and intake would make me feel like I was getting the best out of the motor. At the moment it feels wasted.

 

I suggest the following:

3'' - 3.5'' intake, i suggest playing with the length.. Generally speaking a ITR 3'' intake cut down a bit, would probably be ideal.

As most have mentioned, that header is terrible, i'd run a better header. Hytech replica, toda replica, smsp replica, anything is better then what you have.. you'll want to find a header that is at least 2.5'' at the collector, and i suggest running a 3'' exhaust, if not bigger. Flare it outward, after the collector, it'll increase the velocity. Remember, everything past the merge is just restriction.

The TodaC's are Fat cams, i would expect their power to carry in the upper 8's, but again, the motor can not breath..so this is what you are experiencing the power peaking early. What are the gears set @?? You might want to contact users theshodan or koscek as they both have very good results with the Toda cams, and i know koscek has ran the C's before.

 

Thanks ALLMOTOR,

Ian, you know what to do.

 

I would personally go for the Logic header.

 

Keep the 2.5" exhaust to keep the power and as your touring car specialist recommended. Change intake and header to something a bit more robust.

 

Mac, have you used these cams ? If so what kind of power did you end up with r?

 

Ok I think I have made my decision.

Definitely gona change my intake.

Header between

Skunk 2 alpha or blackworks (these are the only 2 i can get hold of)

Just got to to get on and do it and see what happens....