I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
Now, My intent here is to just note a couple of observations between the two products that I'm presenting here. Yes, I do like a lot of Skunkworks products as most of you know, but I'm not here to stand on a soap box and confess to the world as though I'm a disciple of Skunk2 and that the Skunkworks Team is some sort of deity that should be granted a sacrificial alter on Honda-tech or any other Honda-based web forum. You know I like a variety of products..for a variety of reasons. So don't take this as some sort of holy tribute, or "dick-ride" or "fanboy" or whatever you guys call simple appreciation nowadays for a particular product or company.
I'm simply showing an observation I noticed between two companies and a similar product.. Yes, yes, they are competitors and though not all of us know the history of the BLOX/SKUNKWORKS War of Attrition, it is interesting to see the approach that BLOX takes on a product, from a production, marketing, and cost standpoint, and compare that to the Skunkworks newer marketing approach to combat competitors like BLOX, BLACKWORKS, or others including what I call the eBAY Clan of knock-offs and imitations by introducing the Alpha series of products. Its an interesting way of approaching the use of lower cost, without sacrificing quality in order to combat a situation in this field of performance in which the key people this market mainly look at their wallets first, and quality second. Now, I'm not immune to this, so don't think for one second I'm on some sort of high horse... But take a look. See the differences.
About a year or so ago, on my own personal b-series turbo honda, I found that i was in need of a new throttle body for the new piping and intake manifold that I picked up. As much as I loved my Skunkworks IM for the new piping, I was rather disappointed that my budget at the time wouldn't allow for one of those really cool billet or "black series" throttle bodies. I wanted something about 66mm-70mm, but wasn't sure about the direction I'd go at first.
I mean really.. that's pimp!!! I don't give a damn who you are, but that is balller! BUT, with an average of about $300-$450 a pop, even my particular resolve of patience just couldn't handle such a steep price tag, and made me rather shutter. (As I'm sure it would have any of you fine chaps here...)
So, What could I do? How about the Professional Products line? Nice stuff right? Private label, doesn't really "knock off" anyone, just part of the Nickels' Performance line (for those that know what that is)
Or Polished
Not bad, right? Comes in plain or polished.. $165-$180 bucks, nice quality, you can find it in most spots and websites..BUT NEVER WAS IT IN STOCK. The damn thing was constantly back ordered for at least a month or so, and I needed to get this car together.
So, what was i boiled down to? The BloX 68mm TB Cast TB.
Now I'm not talking about their Billet series that's over $300 bucks average, I'm looking at the all function-no-form TB that's about the largest thing selling for the "frugal" consumer.. (Mainly you and I). Looks decent, you can get their TPS sensor if you don't want to try and remove yours, direct fitment, 66mm & 68mm choices, and at range of $135-$140 each, who could bitch or complain, right? But it works, or so i thought..
I decided to use my original TPS and MAP sensors and not get the newer stuff, because I knew how to disassemble to the old ones anyway, and since many of us go by the "If-It-Ain't-Broke, Why-Fix it? attitude, I felt it wasn't necessary to buy new equipment. I appropriately got my voltages correct with the butterfly closed and WOT, and the car started no problem. All the appropriate water lines were hooked up, and throttle was rather crisp and even a bit peppy under load and WOT. I was really happy, but nervous. For while I was like.. "sorry Skunkworks, as much as I love ya, you're just too rich for my blood.. Better be careful, because on these smaller items, there's a new sheriff in town."
I was afraid the Skunkworks Team were a bit too comfortable with their footprint in the Honda market for so many years, that they sort of forgot what made them a great choice from 15 years back..; Ya know..the guys got a little older, started to get a little fat under the chin and around the waist, a little cockier, and unfortunately, a bit too complacent... And with the number of knock-off companies around, as well as legitimate companies, these competitors were serious about knocking Skunk2 off that high horse they felt they sat on with the vengful force of the "Bear Jew", as he swings his bat at the German officer kneeling on the ground in "Inglorious Bastards", squashing his **** skull like a ripe mellon.
Well, a few months go by with this on, and I start to notice that this new TB was just not as crisp as it was out of the box. After checking the setup for leaks, missing bolts, bad connections and even adjusting the throttle stop a bit, since there was no idle adjustment screw like the OEM, I was wondering that maybe I should have just followed my own rule and chalked up the extra dough for the better Skunk unit(s), as this one has just a screw throttle stop that won't stop moving after a few days at a time!! Even with a little loctite, it was no dice.. I felt that I now had to do what I hated most. RE-PURCHASE an item I've only had for a couple of months.
Well, Project SHE came around and low and behold the ALPHA series came out.. So skunkworks HAD been working on something, and just didn't tell us!! Hmmmmmm. OEM look and cast? 70mm? OEM Idle Screw? Under $200? WTF?!?!?!!?!??! It seems as though they wanted to bring the fight to their foes by introducing a line that was at "knock off" "copy-cat" pricing, without being a knock-off or copy cat... How the fu*k is that possible? I had to have one to see for myself. But... I'll try it on Project SHE first, just to make sure I didn't fall for the hype.
(Here it is on Project "SHE" earlier this year..https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2915107&page=3) See page 1 for the entire build sheet and documentation
Since the one on Project "SHE" did so nicely, I decided to take the plunge. I noticed on H-T that so few people do side by side views to stuff like this. usually its a lot of trading statistics, papers, and 5 minute YouTube Marketing videos showing how cool they are compared to the other guy. ( I admit, I watch those once in a while guys.. There's nothing wrong in it, so don't be afraid to fess up.)
So, now here we are, lets look at the differences between these two bad boys, just for ***** and giggles.
Blox 68mm (Left) vs. Skunk2 Alpha (Right) Notice the Big Red Idle Adjustment screw. Just like OEM!! Yeah!!
Ok. Right next to one another, obviously the newer skunk is a little shinier. But notice how the inner part of the flange is a polished brush aluminum on the Skunk Alpha while the Blox inner flange looks cast even though we know it is a cast piece.
here's a better view
I like how the flange in the Skunk is not only polished and seamless, it also tapers to the butterfly, which makes for a much smoother transition of airflow that's a lot less turbulent than the Blox one (for those of us that really get **** about "turbulence"). But you have to admit, it is a much smoother cast and well built design.
Here's the close up of the blox again
Notice how the butterfly is aluminum. Which typically isn't a bad thing, unless the heat coming in from say, turbocharged air (which is still a bit warm even after going past an intercooler to be over 100*F-117*F) cause the butterfly to expand a bit too easily, causing some binding issues. this might be also why it was not acting so crisp after a bit of hard driving for such a short period of time..I'm speculating of course, but it is still a rather plausible explanation.
Compared to the Skunk2 one.
I like the fact they're using Brass over aluminum and that the bolts that hold the butterfly in place are a lot smaller than the BLOX and are tapered into the bracket and not just sticking out like a couple of screws on a metal table.
But here's what I liked most about this thing. 1) it comes with bolts for the recessed holes in the body to attach to the IM, and surprisingly I'm using these bolts for my Outlaw engineering TB gasket that I port matched to the IM, instead of the ones from the Outlaw kit, which won't fit. 2) it came with replacement bolts for my TPS sensor!!! How cool is that **** !!! Now The TPS looks like it belongs there instead of two hacked looking pieces that obviously look as though I dremmeled slots in them to remove them.
Blox
Skunk2 Alpha withn the recessed bolts in the holes.. this gives it a NICE clean look.
They work on my Outlaw Engineering Gasket. (don't mind the nasty MAP sensor screws, those are getting replaced anyway)
On the Skunk2 IM
I tried like hell to move the throttle stop screw to no avail, and I was happy again.. At least for this test. I'll give an even better impression when I get the car back on the road this spring. In the meantime, my faith in the boys is renewed.. so we'll see.
So what does this all mean to say, really? That I'm much happier with this product than the Blox I had, sure. But more importantly is that I know that we all have a right to get what we need for our car, be it replacement, performance, or a little bit of both, and we just don't have the budgets that we used to a few years ago, regardless of our occupations.
Again, I'm not trying to just shamelessly plug or "pump up" Skunkworks in hopes of some sponsorship dream or whatever. People like or hate companies for their particular reasons, and that's cool. It really is. Its what drives competition, innovation, and the need to individualize ourselves however we can. So if you like them, this little blip is no surprise. But if you don't like them, that's cool too, because it is a matter of personal experience and preference. But for something like this, and its around $125-$135 for a brand new Throttle Body that really seems to work.. They can't be all bad... can they?
I'm just sayin'.
Keep it Easy and Greasy, people..
I'm simply showing an observation I noticed between two companies and a similar product.. Yes, yes, they are competitors and though not all of us know the history of the BLOX/SKUNKWORKS War of Attrition, it is interesting to see the approach that BLOX takes on a product, from a production, marketing, and cost standpoint, and compare that to the Skunkworks newer marketing approach to combat competitors like BLOX, BLACKWORKS, or others including what I call the eBAY Clan of knock-offs and imitations by introducing the Alpha series of products. Its an interesting way of approaching the use of lower cost, without sacrificing quality in order to combat a situation in this field of performance in which the key people this market mainly look at their wallets first, and quality second. Now, I'm not immune to this, so don't think for one second I'm on some sort of high horse... But take a look. See the differences.
About a year or so ago, on my own personal b-series turbo honda, I found that i was in need of a new throttle body for the new piping and intake manifold that I picked up. As much as I loved my Skunkworks IM for the new piping, I was rather disappointed that my budget at the time wouldn't allow for one of those really cool billet or "black series" throttle bodies. I wanted something about 66mm-70mm, but wasn't sure about the direction I'd go at first.
I mean really.. that's pimp!!! I don't give a damn who you are, but that is balller! BUT, with an average of about $300-$450 a pop, even my particular resolve of patience just couldn't handle such a steep price tag, and made me rather shutter. (As I'm sure it would have any of you fine chaps here...)
So, What could I do? How about the Professional Products line? Nice stuff right? Private label, doesn't really "knock off" anyone, just part of the Nickels' Performance line (for those that know what that is)
Or Polished
Not bad, right? Comes in plain or polished.. $165-$180 bucks, nice quality, you can find it in most spots and websites..BUT NEVER WAS IT IN STOCK. The damn thing was constantly back ordered for at least a month or so, and I needed to get this car together.
So, what was i boiled down to? The BloX 68mm TB Cast TB.
Now I'm not talking about their Billet series that's over $300 bucks average, I'm looking at the all function-no-form TB that's about the largest thing selling for the "frugal" consumer.. (Mainly you and I). Looks decent, you can get their TPS sensor if you don't want to try and remove yours, direct fitment, 66mm & 68mm choices, and at range of $135-$140 each, who could bitch or complain, right? But it works, or so i thought..
I decided to use my original TPS and MAP sensors and not get the newer stuff, because I knew how to disassemble to the old ones anyway, and since many of us go by the "If-It-Ain't-Broke, Why-Fix it? attitude, I felt it wasn't necessary to buy new equipment. I appropriately got my voltages correct with the butterfly closed and WOT, and the car started no problem. All the appropriate water lines were hooked up, and throttle was rather crisp and even a bit peppy under load and WOT. I was really happy, but nervous. For while I was like.. "sorry Skunkworks, as much as I love ya, you're just too rich for my blood.. Better be careful, because on these smaller items, there's a new sheriff in town."
I was afraid the Skunkworks Team were a bit too comfortable with their footprint in the Honda market for so many years, that they sort of forgot what made them a great choice from 15 years back..; Ya know..the guys got a little older, started to get a little fat under the chin and around the waist, a little cockier, and unfortunately, a bit too complacent... And with the number of knock-off companies around, as well as legitimate companies, these competitors were serious about knocking Skunk2 off that high horse they felt they sat on with the vengful force of the "Bear Jew", as he swings his bat at the German officer kneeling on the ground in "Inglorious Bastards", squashing his **** skull like a ripe mellon.
Well, a few months go by with this on, and I start to notice that this new TB was just not as crisp as it was out of the box. After checking the setup for leaks, missing bolts, bad connections and even adjusting the throttle stop a bit, since there was no idle adjustment screw like the OEM, I was wondering that maybe I should have just followed my own rule and chalked up the extra dough for the better Skunk unit(s), as this one has just a screw throttle stop that won't stop moving after a few days at a time!! Even with a little loctite, it was no dice.. I felt that I now had to do what I hated most. RE-PURCHASE an item I've only had for a couple of months.
Well, Project SHE came around and low and behold the ALPHA series came out.. So skunkworks HAD been working on something, and just didn't tell us!! Hmmmmmm. OEM look and cast? 70mm? OEM Idle Screw? Under $200? WTF?!?!?!!?!??! It seems as though they wanted to bring the fight to their foes by introducing a line that was at "knock off" "copy-cat" pricing, without being a knock-off or copy cat... How the fu*k is that possible? I had to have one to see for myself. But... I'll try it on Project SHE first, just to make sure I didn't fall for the hype.
(Here it is on Project "SHE" earlier this year..https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2915107&page=3) See page 1 for the entire build sheet and documentation
Since the one on Project "SHE" did so nicely, I decided to take the plunge. I noticed on H-T that so few people do side by side views to stuff like this. usually its a lot of trading statistics, papers, and 5 minute YouTube Marketing videos showing how cool they are compared to the other guy. ( I admit, I watch those once in a while guys.. There's nothing wrong in it, so don't be afraid to fess up.)
So, now here we are, lets look at the differences between these two bad boys, just for ***** and giggles.
Blox 68mm (Left) vs. Skunk2 Alpha (Right) Notice the Big Red Idle Adjustment screw. Just like OEM!! Yeah!!
Ok. Right next to one another, obviously the newer skunk is a little shinier. But notice how the inner part of the flange is a polished brush aluminum on the Skunk Alpha while the Blox inner flange looks cast even though we know it is a cast piece.
here's a better view
I like how the flange in the Skunk is not only polished and seamless, it also tapers to the butterfly, which makes for a much smoother transition of airflow that's a lot less turbulent than the Blox one (for those of us that really get **** about "turbulence"). But you have to admit, it is a much smoother cast and well built design.
Here's the close up of the blox again
Notice how the butterfly is aluminum. Which typically isn't a bad thing, unless the heat coming in from say, turbocharged air (which is still a bit warm even after going past an intercooler to be over 100*F-117*F) cause the butterfly to expand a bit too easily, causing some binding issues. this might be also why it was not acting so crisp after a bit of hard driving for such a short period of time..I'm speculating of course, but it is still a rather plausible explanation.
Compared to the Skunk2 one.
I like the fact they're using Brass over aluminum and that the bolts that hold the butterfly in place are a lot smaller than the BLOX and are tapered into the bracket and not just sticking out like a couple of screws on a metal table.
But here's what I liked most about this thing. 1) it comes with bolts for the recessed holes in the body to attach to the IM, and surprisingly I'm using these bolts for my Outlaw engineering TB gasket that I port matched to the IM, instead of the ones from the Outlaw kit, which won't fit. 2) it came with replacement bolts for my TPS sensor!!! How cool is that **** !!! Now The TPS looks like it belongs there instead of two hacked looking pieces that obviously look as though I dremmeled slots in them to remove them.
Blox
Skunk2 Alpha withn the recessed bolts in the holes.. this gives it a NICE clean look.
They work on my Outlaw Engineering Gasket. (don't mind the nasty MAP sensor screws, those are getting replaced anyway)
On the Skunk2 IM
I tried like hell to move the throttle stop screw to no avail, and I was happy again.. At least for this test. I'll give an even better impression when I get the car back on the road this spring. In the meantime, my faith in the boys is renewed.. so we'll see.
So what does this all mean to say, really? That I'm much happier with this product than the Blox I had, sure. But more importantly is that I know that we all have a right to get what we need for our car, be it replacement, performance, or a little bit of both, and we just don't have the budgets that we used to a few years ago, regardless of our occupations.
Again, I'm not trying to just shamelessly plug or "pump up" Skunkworks in hopes of some sponsorship dream or whatever. People like or hate companies for their particular reasons, and that's cool. It really is. Its what drives competition, innovation, and the need to individualize ourselves however we can. So if you like them, this little blip is no surprise. But if you don't like them, that's cool too, because it is a matter of personal experience and preference. But for something like this, and its around $125-$135 for a brand new Throttle Body that really seems to work.. They can't be all bad... can they?
I'm just sayin'.
Keep it Easy and Greasy, people..
Last edited by TheShodan; Jan 30, 2012 at 04:54 PM.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
TOP NOTCH...
the alpha series is really getting good.
at least the guys who put in the work get paid, not the guys who rip off....
the alpha series is really getting good.
at least the guys who put in the work get paid, not the guys who rip off....
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 1
From: netherlands
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
i'm all about being different also, but you can't deny they make good products and are first choice of many when it comes to quality of the shelf products
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
Nice review. I have the same skunk throttle body, but in 66mm. Haven't had any issues. I only dislike the allen head bolts.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
Well. That was kind of my point; the fact that they were actually "thinking" of the consumer, now that the average person is more of a DIYer than ever, and how r&d can still be an affordable option in the same sentence.
This TB reminds me of MaxBore.. OEM uses and reliability while still being performance-oriented. It's like the best of 2 worlds.
This TB reminds me of MaxBore.. OEM uses and reliability while still being performance-oriented. It's like the best of 2 worlds.
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
U don't see it eh? There is about 15+ pages of google results that go into how or why they got that name.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1608&bih=762
Here r some junk2 TB mishaps..
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...kunk2+tb+screw
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/skunk2-tb-failure-destroyed-my-engine-what-can-i-do-2241043/
Some other useful links regarding junk2, with videos and such.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2802434&page=4
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2870309&page=5
https://honda-tech.com/forums/general-discussion-debate-40/skunk2-do-you-really-think-were-stupid-2933501/
I'm just sayin' . . . there's a reason why all this junk is around about such a company, junk2.
I'm just sayin' . . . if u r gonna buy junk made in china, might as well buy the cheapest ones u can find that r all probably made in inadjacent warehouses, anyway.
Food for thought. Take from it what u will.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
ah junk2.
U don't see it eh? There is about 15+ pages of google results that go into how or why they got that name.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1608&bih=762
Here r some junk2 TB mishaps..
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...kunk2+tb+screw
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2241043
Some other useful links regarding junk2, with videos and such.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2802434&page=4
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2870309&page=5
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2933501
I'm just sayin' . . . there's a reason why all this junk is around about such a company, junk2.
I'm just sayin' . . . if u r gonna buy junk made in china, might as well buy the cheapest ones u can find that r all probably made in inadjacent warehouses, anyway.
Food for thought. Take from it what u will.
U don't see it eh? There is about 15+ pages of google results that go into how or why they got that name.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...w=1608&bih=762
Here r some junk2 TB mishaps..
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread...kunk2+tb+screw
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2241043
Some other useful links regarding junk2, with videos and such.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2802434&page=4
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2870309&page=5
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2933501
I'm just sayin' . . . there's a reason why all this junk is around about such a company, junk2.
I'm just sayin' . . . if u r gonna buy junk made in china, might as well buy the cheapest ones u can find that r all probably made in inadjacent warehouses, anyway.
Food for thought. Take from it what u will.
No worries.. Do your thing. Again, these were just observations.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 3
From: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
Skunk2 always makes good products. No companies are 100% flawless on anything they make. But for the amount of R/D that goes into skunk2's stuff, its worth it. They are a good company.
Although i make my own cams, i still recommend skunk2 stuff to customers for the sher fact that sometimes, their profiles and pricing are just better options.
Haters gonna hate.
My facebook status right now
"Its a shame that bad experiences are remembered more then the good ones.. its a shame someone's hard work will go UN-noticed for months until a bad experience is shared..Thanks to those people who remember the good ones. This is for companies who understand this status."
Although i make my own cams, i still recommend skunk2 stuff to customers for the sher fact that sometimes, their profiles and pricing are just better options.
Haters gonna hate.
My facebook status right now
"Its a shame that bad experiences are remembered more then the good ones.. its a shame someone's hard work will go UN-noticed for months until a bad experience is shared..Thanks to those people who remember the good ones. This is for companies who understand this status."
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
Skunkworks always makes good products. No companies are 100% flawless on anything they make. But for the amount of R/D that goes into skunk2's stuff, its worth it. They are a good company.
"Its a shame that bad experiences are remembered more then the good ones.. its a shame someone's hard work will go UN-noticed for months until a bad experience is shared..Thanks to those people who remember the good ones. This is for companies who understand this status."
"Its a shame that bad experiences are remembered more then the good ones.. its a shame someone's hard work will go UN-noticed for months until a bad experience is shared..Thanks to those people who remember the good ones. This is for companies who understand this status."
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 0
From: NJ, usa
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 0
From: NJ, usa
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
ive read about the horror stories , of some of the skunk products, but i couldnt be anymore happy with all my products from them .... the only thing i hate is the dam bushings in my lower controll arms lol , and i cant find the receite to get the new ones for free lol , love my pro c suspension, my adjustable camber (even tho it wasnt needed), love my mani and t-body,my shifter,header,and my old mega power, and soon to be pro 2 cams
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 0
From: Culpeper Va
Re: I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994
my billet 68 is a pita it sticks alot wont drop down to a idle, and the idle allen screw is a pita to get to. but it makes good power but I havent even driven the car yet thats just from the tuning session.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 24,555
Likes: 242
From: City of Wind, IL, USA
