It's time to really make the step forward into safety and seriousness about racing. As far as roll bars and roll cages I know Autopower comes to mind first, for me at least. Now I have seen improperly mounted cages, usually Cusco bolt ins go through the floor and have the roof collapse in a roll over. As far as I am concerned those are an accessory and false sense of security.

Mainly I was looking at the Autopower bolt in 8300 DOM 6 point cage for my Civic. I like the idea that the lower bars running to the front are removable for say street driving. The price is $935.95 for that setup but they also have a weld in for $825.95 which looks like it utilizes 2 door bars and a under dash bar. Then figure the price of welding it. Obviously a safer route but is it really needed?

Obviously when running a cage I will be using a fixed back seat and 5 point harness. I look at it as better safe than sorry. I rather be over equipped than under equipped for safety. According to my neighbor a crash at just 40MPH into a solid object like a pit wall is very likely to kill you.

 

If you are taking the step forward into racing then build a car just for racing . You can't mix a car for street and track and called it serious. Having a cage is more than just installing a bunch of tubes inside. Can't mix safety devices in your car.
Fix seat and 5 point harness doesn't mix with air bags , I assume your car has at least 1 air bag. To me only a custom build cage will do in race conditions. Auto power is good but it is not enough for me.

 

Don't have room for 2 cars. Also I removed the airbags from my car. As far as I am concerned airbags are just a canvas bag that punches you in the face at 200MPH.

 

First off what is your definition of "racing?" Are we talking about Time Trial, DE, Wheel to Wheel?

Second, no matter how much you wish it were not true, cages are not safe for use on the street. A cage will kill you quick when your bare head hits steel tube.

 

I'm not going to be preachy and tell you a cage on the street is dangerous as I think it is more dangerous to roll your car on the track with no cage than driving to the grocery store and there is a higher chance of crashing on the track than people crashing into me on my drive into work, anyone who says otherwise is crazy. What I am going to say is any proper built cage will have no bars near your head but that doesn't seem to be the case with autopower.

For $1600 I'm sure you can find someone to fab you a real cage with some lighter DOM 1/5 .095 wall with proper triangulation. Autopower foot plates are tiny and the rear stays from what I remember mount to the wheelwells? If you are serious about racing then your car should be disposible and your cage would be more than just a safety item. A proper built cage will make your car a lot stiffer. If you are going to weld anything...then go custom.

 

Yeah I'm not sure how a cage on the street is dangerous unless you have like a stock seat sitting up high. In the event of a crash one would have to lift out of the belts going above the seat which if that were the case I think you might be worried about more than a cage. I want a fixed bucket seat and technically speaking its dangerous to not have at least a roll bar and harness with it.

 

Tell us about this fixed bucket seat.... What kind/brand?
In case you arent aware and im sure you arent.
All seat belts stretch to a degree.
Enough so you can slip out of your 5 point harness and whack your head on one of those bars you so badly want in your steet car.
Not a good idea at all IMO.

When I track my cars, I use every bit of safety equipment.
Helmet, HANS & proper fitting HANS belts.
Padding is put on any portion of the cage that can come into contact with my body.
Even down at my ankle area.
Smack a bone on a piece of metal at speed... or even 40mph for that matter.
The bone will lose everytime.
Just my .02 but no cages in a street car.
You cant protect yourself from what can happen in a roll over, and that goes double for the poor passenger.
If you put anything in.. make it removeable for when you do track your street car.
Might be a pain in the *** but you have to think of you and the passengers safety.
FYI... put that airbag back in the car.
Id rather get hit by a 200mph pillow, and have a broken nose than no teeth or no face.

 

+1000

 

Street cars are design with safety features . Any time you change them there will be consecuences . For example your seat may be design to break back in case of a crash or anything else you are not aware.
A couple of years ago we had a huge crash in bw in a new hpde1 student with an instructor riding passenger . Brand new civic si . Total driver error. It took over 10 minutes to extract the instructor since the emergency personnel had to cut the car. The instructor and driver were ok and survived the crash thanks to the safety devices in the car. The seats broke back . The roof collapse and would have hurt both really bad if they had different seats.
I know is "cool" to drive around on the street with a cage car and 5 point harness but I wouldn't recommend it. Listen to the guys, unless you want to drive around with a helmet and Hans and full padding around all the tubes. Just guess what your neck is going to do if you are fully strapped in a 5 point harness with no Hans and helmet and no air bag if you hit something. Then again is your choice and this is just advice.

 

If an approved harness can stretch even 3" I think it would be a major safety hazard to begin with. I'd love to see proof of this.

The airbag system will not go back in my car. Airbags are a safety device for people to stay in the car when not wearing a restraint. New cars you would be a fool to willingly take them out because they are more like a pillow. Old cars in almost all instances do more harm than good. The airbags never deployed when I hit a pole at 70MPH in my last Civic. The way I see it, if I were to actually NEED the airbags then more than likely I am dying in the crash regardless. With proper bar padding and a seat mounted to the ground where your head doesn't go above the top of the seat, I can't see how you could hit your head when fastened in.

 

Tell us about that civic....what year?
70mph and no airbag deployment? I'd of filed a lawsuit soo fast.
Sounds like you had a sketchy car to begin with.
What kind of person thinks... let me quote you here...
"Airbags are a safety device for people to stay in the car when not wearing a restraint."

Are you actually serious?
Come on doood... I think I gave you too much credit for being smart.

 

Well you would have to use your harness all the time and your stock seat belt is not going to work anymore if they weld the main hoop to the B pillar. All the bars would be tight against the roof and the seat would be on the floor with custom mounts. I don't know anyone who would use a stock seat with a cage and it doesn't sound like you are that stupid.

Great head room is not possible with some autopower

Just look at the WRC cars that drive in between stages. They aren't wearing their helmets on the street.

 

Getting back to your post. What are the plans for "racing"? Is this a lapping day car or SCCA/NASA racing? If you are really planning to race my advice to you is to show up at the events you wish to participate and get to know the guys that run those events. You will do it right the first time and quickly find out what the legitimate way of achieving your goal is. You will probably come across good oportunities to learn a lot and find used stuff much cheaper. I wish 15 years ago when I started doing HPDE I would have done this.

 

SCCA/NASA events are definitely what I'm going for. Even for auto x my mods place me into a class with slicks and cages. I have neither at the moment. I want my car to be able to drive in the majority of events and while it would be fun to be competitive I just don't have the cash or time right now to do that. I'm looking to go out and safely have fun. Having a full bucket seat and harness only improves driving because you aren't trying to hold your body from flying around using the wheel.

 

+1000

I think you are putting your cart before the horse.
FYI it doesnt take cash to be competitive.

 

Actually, first generation airbags were designed to hold an un-seatbelted person in the car, which is why they caused so many injuries.

That's why we now have SRS airbags, their name directly states their intent, Supplemental Restraint System. They don't offer much if you aren't belted in correctly (a very large number of people do not correctly wear their seatbelt, but that's it's own topic).

Sadly, too many people have heard issues with the first generation airbags and think that current ones suffer from the same issues.

 

If you are going to race (RACE, not tt, de, ect) your only vehicle, you are nuts.

 

Nah that would be RWD then :p

I have a pretty sweet bicycle to get to work on though lol. Cars are disposable, I learned that when I totaled my 2nd car that I got away from the accident with my life. Buying another shell is cheap.

 

I'm guessing insurance helped buy another shell? There's no recouping of $$ after a crash on track/during a race. If you race door to door you better be prepared to say goodbye to the car and the $$ tied up in it at anytime.

 

If you can't push the car off a cliff and watch it burn with glee, you can't afford to go racing.

 

Ha I wish that were the case. I took the hit out of my pocket and parted everything I wouldn't be swapping to another car to make some money back. I know how most of racing goes. Just to rebuild another chassis up to spec even with my salvaged parts took almost a year. New bushings, joints, bearings, bracing, brake lines, fuel lines, wiring... I did a complete solo build which is why it took so long. 1 man can only do so much at a time, and I did ride my bike to work during that time lol.

 

Would it make you guys feel better if I said fine this car will stay my DD/HPDE/AutoX car and just get a Corbeau FX1 Pro seat and maybe an Autopower 4pt roll bar? Then I will rent a storage unit and build a respectable race car with a full weld in with door bars and the whole shabangabang for serious rubbin is racing times.

 

I dare say that you have a greater chance of some kind of accident on the street than having a roll over bad enough to need a cage. Any street crash is going to send body parts flopping around in the car and in contact with the cage. And just because you have a crash on the track doesn't mean that you are going to die without a cage. My last crash on track completely destroyed the car without coming any where close to the cage structure.

The OP still hasn't given us his definition of "racing" and the likelyhood of needing a cage to prevent injury on track depends a lot on what you are doing. DE/TT has a low probability of a t-bone type crash. W2W has a high probability. HARD rollovers are a relatively rare occurrence. People crash in DE and TT all the time and are fine without a cage.

Its a lot more likely that you are going to be in a crash where you need side impact protection than roll over. OP are you going to gut your door so you can run proper door bars? You willing to have to crawl over a bar not much below window height every time you go to the store?

 

For the longest time I told people I welded my door shut and I would climb in and out of the car through the window. Pretty easy to do actually so yes I would be willing to climb over door bars.

 

Obviously this is all coming from a younger person who has no clue on the dangers of what he wants to do.
Nor does he even really care.
Not listening to sound advice from some experienced people, and has his own opinions on what is safe and what isnt.
This is where we should be ignoring this post or closing it.
You cant teach a rock. big sighhhhh.

Only with age does someone realize there is not big "S" on their chest, and that they aren't invinceable.