Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
So after EXTENSIVE reading & research on this forum I've decided on the Bilstein HD & H&R OE combo.
Here's where I want to be:
Comfort |-------O------------| Performance
My Honda is currently a bone stock 99 Civic EX sedan 5 speed with about 100,500 miles on the clock, that will be performing new infant baby transport. This car is a semi DD for me, (I have a high performance BMW 330Ci) and will mostly remain stock with exception to a slightly upgraded suspension. I chose the Bilstein's because I'm a long time fan of them, having used them on both street cars & race cars. They have a lifetime warranty that I know works quickly based on personal experience. I'm going with the H&R OE Sport Springs because the only give a .75" drop front & rear which is all I want, but they do bump up the spring rate to 280F & 190R vs. Honda's stock Civic EX rate of 165F & 80R. Hopefully this setup will work great together giving me the tiny drop, slightly firmer ride & enough comfort for the baby & I.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
H&R OE Sport Springs
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...9&autoModClar=
Bilstein HD
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...9&autoModClar=
Here's where I want to be:
Comfort |-------O------------| Performance
My Honda is currently a bone stock 99 Civic EX sedan 5 speed with about 100,500 miles on the clock, that will be performing new infant baby transport. This car is a semi DD for me, (I have a high performance BMW 330Ci) and will mostly remain stock with exception to a slightly upgraded suspension. I chose the Bilstein's because I'm a long time fan of them, having used them on both street cars & race cars. They have a lifetime warranty that I know works quickly based on personal experience. I'm going with the H&R OE Sport Springs because the only give a .75" drop front & rear which is all I want, but they do bump up the spring rate to 280F & 190R vs. Honda's stock Civic EX rate of 165F & 80R. Hopefully this setup will work great together giving me the tiny drop, slightly firmer ride & enough comfort for the baby & I.
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
H&R OE Sport Springs
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...9&autoModClar=
Bilstein HD
http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/s...9&autoModClar=
Last edited by Rob43; Nov 16, 2011 at 12:58 PM.
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From: Beating people with a stick, GA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
We have no idea of telling what your little graph means. I use that all the time to show people that you can't have your cake and eat it too. That's the only useful information to be taken from that argument.
If you've decided already, why do you care what we think?
Bilstein makes great stuff. I would not be happy with H&R's rates for a DD. I currently DD 350/350 and the front is too soft, and the rear maybe a tad too high if you are sensitive.
If you've decided already, why do you care what we think?
Bilstein makes great stuff. I would not be happy with H&R's rates for a DD. I currently DD 350/350 and the front is too soft, and the rear maybe a tad too high if you are sensitive.
Thread Starter
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
We have no idea of telling what your little graph means. I use that all the time to show people that you can't have your cake and eat it too. That's the only useful information to be taken from that argument.
I stole that "little graph" from you, you of all people should understand what it means.
If you've decided already, why do you care what we think?
It's still good hear from other knowledgeable forum members in case I missed something. Thanks for your very informative input.
Bilstein makes great stuff. I would not be happy with H&R's rates for a DD. I currently DD 350/350 and the front is too soft, and the rear maybe a tad too high if you are sensitive.
I stole that "little graph" from you, you of all people should understand what it means.
If you've decided already, why do you care what we think?
It's still good hear from other knowledgeable forum members in case I missed something. Thanks for your very informative input.
Bilstein makes great stuff. I would not be happy with H&R's rates for a DD. I currently DD 350/350 and the front is too soft, and the rear maybe a tad too high if you are sensitive.
Ek Forever y0!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,712
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From: Beating people with a stick, GA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
I know exactly what it means. I even said that. The graph is not indicative of your personal capacity for varying levels of suspension comfort.
You're exactly right, it's always good to hear from knowledgeable people about consumer goods. Wouldn't it strike you as "odd" if someone went out and bought elbow grease and headlight fluid and THEN asked people on the internet if it was a good purchase? Usually people ask for advice before they settle on a decision.
This way the discussion is a lot more colorful, you're here giving thousands of readers 1 option to comment on as opposed to asking for personal insight on comfortable suspension. Bilstein is uncommon anyway, someone who hasn't used or heard of them isn't going to be able to be constructive in helping you and is likely to just move on to reading the next thread.
How am I suppose to know you care about whether or not your kid is comfortable? I know plenty of people who stuff their kids into their ridiculous vehicles.
Many users over the years have complained about the H&R sport springs because the rates are too soft for the drop in height provided. This often makes for a more uncomfortable ride than a stiffer suspension because the suspension travel is a bit too much for many.
You're exactly right, it's always good to hear from knowledgeable people about consumer goods. Wouldn't it strike you as "odd" if someone went out and bought elbow grease and headlight fluid and THEN asked people on the internet if it was a good purchase? Usually people ask for advice before they settle on a decision.
This way the discussion is a lot more colorful, you're here giving thousands of readers 1 option to comment on as opposed to asking for personal insight on comfortable suspension. Bilstein is uncommon anyway, someone who hasn't used or heard of them isn't going to be able to be constructive in helping you and is likely to just move on to reading the next thread.
How am I suppose to know you care about whether or not your kid is comfortable? I know plenty of people who stuff their kids into their ridiculous vehicles.
Many users over the years have complained about the H&R sport springs because the rates are too soft for the drop in height provided. This often makes for a more uncomfortable ride than a stiffer suspension because the suspension travel is a bit too much for many.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 68
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
I know exactly what it means. I even said that. The graph is not indicative of your personal capacity for varying levels of suspension comfort.
You're exactly right, it's always good to hear from knowledgeable people about consumer goods. Wouldn't it strike you as "odd" if someone went out and bought elbow grease and headlight fluid and THEN asked people on the internet if it was a good purchase? Usually people ask for advice before they settle on a decision.
This way the discussion is a lot more colorful, you're here giving thousands of readers 1 option to comment on as opposed to asking for personal insight on comfortable suspension. Bilstein is uncommon anyway, someone who hasn't used or heard of them isn't going to be able to be constructive in helping you and is likely to just move on to reading the next thread.
How am I suppose to know you care about whether or not your kid is comfortable? I know plenty of people who stuff their kids into their ridiculous vehicles.
Many users over the years have complained about the H&R sport springs because the rates are too soft for the drop in height provided. This often makes for a more uncomfortable ride than a stiffer suspension because the suspension travel is a bit too much for many.
You're exactly right, it's always good to hear from knowledgeable people about consumer goods. Wouldn't it strike you as "odd" if someone went out and bought elbow grease and headlight fluid and THEN asked people on the internet if it was a good purchase? Usually people ask for advice before they settle on a decision.
This way the discussion is a lot more colorful, you're here giving thousands of readers 1 option to comment on as opposed to asking for personal insight on comfortable suspension. Bilstein is uncommon anyway, someone who hasn't used or heard of them isn't going to be able to be constructive in helping you and is likely to just move on to reading the next thread.
How am I suppose to know you care about whether or not your kid is comfortable? I know plenty of people who stuff their kids into their ridiculous vehicles.
Many users over the years have complained about the H&R sport springs because the rates are too soft for the drop in height provided. This often makes for a more uncomfortable ride than a stiffer suspension because the suspension travel is a bit too much for many.
At least this is a better response.
Even though I've decided on them they're still not bought, meaning I could still be swayed If some new great suspension information came my way.
Bilstein is "uncommon", maybe in the Honda arena; but certainly not worldwide.
"How am I suppose to know you care about whether or not your kid is comfortable?" Well in all fairness I not only mentioned it once, I mentioned it twice. Here is exactly what I said: 1) "that will be performing new infant baby transport" 2) "& enough comfort for the baby & I."
Finally we're not talking about H&R Sport Springs, we are talking about H&R OE Sport Springs. Totally different animals in what they're trying to achieve.
Last edited by Rob43; Nov 6, 2011 at 07:31 PM.
Ek Forever y0!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,712
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From: Beating people with a stick, GA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
No, bilstein is definitely probably one of the most widely used shocks out there. Just not common among hondas outside of Germany and the U.K.
I still am not sure how I'm suppose to gauge what level of comfort you'd like for the car. That is something often determined by each person. To some people a honda civic in stick form is too uncomfortable.
My mistake on the OE sport part. My head went right to the H&R sports.
I still am not sure how I'm suppose to gauge what level of comfort you'd like for the car. That is something often determined by each person. To some people a honda civic in stick form is too uncomfortable.
My mistake on the OE sport part. My head went right to the H&R sports.
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 68
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
No, bilstein is definitely probably one of the most widely used shocks out there. Just not common among hondas outside of Germany and the U.K.
I still am not sure how I'm suppose to gauge what level of comfort you'd like for the car. That is something often determined by each person. To some people a honda civic in stick form is too uncomfortable.
My mistake on the OE sport part. My head went right to the H&R sports.
I still am not sure how I'm suppose to gauge what level of comfort you'd like for the car. That is something often determined by each person. To some people a honda civic in stick form is too uncomfortable.
My mistake on the OE sport part. My head went right to the H&R sports.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2011
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
Probably the the best advice.
The Civic has never had new suspension anything, so I figure if I'm in there changing things out, why not do a slight upgrade.
I will say I gave great consideration to leaving the stock springs in place & just going with the Bilstein HD. On a side note, if Koni made FSD shocks for the 99 Civic, I'd give them a try.
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From: The Wild West
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
Your baby would tell you to get some Monroe's and keep the stock springs for ride comfort geared toward transporting a small child.
Why spend the extra money for something that will handle marginally better than stock?
Just my $.02
Why spend the extra money for something that will handle marginally better than stock?
Just my $.02
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Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
I agree, if your worried about the comfort of a baby. Just keep it stock. And since the car is semi DD either make it full-time DD and use the "high performance 330Ci" for non DD or just keep using both for semi DD.
And last time I checked, a 330Ci is not an M3 which is "high performance"! Sure, a 330Ci will be "higher performance" than a Civic EX but when compared to the other 3 series lineup a 330Ci is more on the bottom. Its not all-wheel drive or turbo charged.
And last time I checked, a 330Ci is not an M3 which is "high performance"! Sure, a 330Ci will be "higher performance" than a Civic EX but when compared to the other 3 series lineup a 330Ci is more on the bottom. Its not all-wheel drive or turbo charged.
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
I agree, if your worried about the comfort of a baby. Just keep it stock. And since the car is semi DD either make it full-time DD and use the "high performance 330Ci" for non DD or just keep using both for semi DD.
And last time I checked, a 330Ci is not an M3 which is "high performance"! Sure, a 330Ci will be "higher performance" than a Civic EX but when compared to the other 3 series lineup a 330Ci is more on the bottom. Its not all-wheel drive or turbo charged.
And last time I checked, a 330Ci is not an M3 which is "high performance"! Sure, a 330Ci will be "higher performance" than a Civic EX but when compared to the other 3 series lineup a 330Ci is more on the bottom. Its not all-wheel drive or turbo charged.
Last edited by Rob43; Nov 6, 2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
FWIW- you are nominally doubling the spring rates with the ones you are suggesting. This is a lot.... although you should look carefully at your stock springs, they may start out with those ratings but on very many Hondas the spring rate is a rising rate (as spring turns contact one another at one end of the spring) as soon as the spring is compressed from the static position. The Bilstein shocks will come to you valved in a way that is designed to be used with a certain spring type. I would follow Bilstein's recommendations to the letter here. Now, if that setup is one that Bilstein recommend and also that you know and like because you have seen it/felt it on other cars then you can't go wrong really....
BUT- if Bilstein say its OK to use stock springs with their dampers it probably is very far from OK to genuinely double the spring rate (if, indeed this is actually what you are doing...). On very many other cars fitting Bilstein HDs transforms the ride even with stock springs because a) the old shocks were knackered, and because they got that way slowly, you didn't really notice.... and b) Bilstein monotubes have some of the best thought-out and best engineered dampers in the business; the rate settings are usually spot-on for the intended application, and they typically have a sensible bump damping rate (linear with speed) and a digressive rebound setting which allows good body control at low shock speeds and supple bump absorbtion at higher shock speeds. All good for baby-comfort I reckon...
If you want to lower without upping the spring rate greatly you can always try cutting stock springs down a little; this will work quite well if you profile the last turn nicely. If this doesn't so it for you, you can always buy aftermarket springs.... if this is what you were going to do anyway you have lost almost nothing....
cheers
BUT- if Bilstein say its OK to use stock springs with their dampers it probably is very far from OK to genuinely double the spring rate (if, indeed this is actually what you are doing...). On very many other cars fitting Bilstein HDs transforms the ride even with stock springs because a) the old shocks were knackered, and because they got that way slowly, you didn't really notice.... and b) Bilstein monotubes have some of the best thought-out and best engineered dampers in the business; the rate settings are usually spot-on for the intended application, and they typically have a sensible bump damping rate (linear with speed) and a digressive rebound setting which allows good body control at low shock speeds and supple bump absorbtion at higher shock speeds. All good for baby-comfort I reckon...
If you want to lower without upping the spring rate greatly you can always try cutting stock springs down a little; this will work quite well if you profile the last turn nicely. If this doesn't so it for you, you can always buy aftermarket springs.... if this is what you were going to do anyway you have lost almost nothing....
cheers
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Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
So after a very nice & informative phone call With "Doc" at Tire Rack, I've placed my order for the Bilstein HD's & H&R OE Sport Springs. "Doc" also helped save me a few bucks on shipping & everything should get delivered by the end of the week. Hopefully I'll have the Bilsteins & H&R's installed within the next 2 weeks, with a fresh alignment.
Again, Thanks "Doc" for all your help, I'll be buying the wheels & tires soon.
"Doc@tirerack.com
800-428-8355, ext 665
Help support the forum !
Reference >Honda-Tech / Doc< when ordering online !"
Again, Thanks "Doc" for all your help, I'll be buying the wheels & tires soon.
"Doc@tirerack.com
800-428-8355, ext 665
Help support the forum !
Reference >Honda-Tech / Doc< when ordering online !"
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 68
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
So yesterday I received my Bilstein HD's & H&R OE Sport Springs from "Doc" at Tire Rack.
Today I placed my order with "Doc" at Tire Rack for the TRM C1 15X7 42mm wheels & the General Altimax HP 195/60-15 (H) tires. "Doc" again saved me a few bucks on shipping.
Everything should get install by the end of the month, with a new alignment.
"Doc", thanks again.
Today I placed my order with "Doc" at Tire Rack for the TRM C1 15X7 42mm wheels & the General Altimax HP 195/60-15 (H) tires. "Doc" again saved me a few bucks on shipping.
Everything should get install by the end of the month, with a new alignment.
"Doc", thanks again.
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From: Richmond VA & Philly PA
Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
I was actually surprised by that too. I just measured it, there's a 3/8" drop between them. Based on the fact that this car may see some snow driving, I'm going to leave them set on the higher of the two positions.
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Re: Bilstein HD with H&R OE Sport Springs
A little update, Everything is done.
1) H&R OE Springs installed.
2) Bilstein HD's installed.
3) TR-1 wheels & tires installed.
4) New stock exhaust (quiet).
5) Factory spec alignment.
6) New OE front rotors & pads.
I'm currently on Christmas vacation for the next week, I'll soon give a driving review.
Merry Christmas.
1) H&R OE Springs installed.
2) Bilstein HD's installed.
3) TR-1 wheels & tires installed.
4) New stock exhaust (quiet).
5) Factory spec alignment.
6) New OE front rotors & pads.
I'm currently on Christmas vacation for the next week, I'll soon give a driving review.
Merry Christmas.
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