Hey HT I will be installing a partial roll cage into my CRX for rear-chassis stability, rollover protection, and added protection from direct side impact.

This is the style I am looking for..


If I have to weld it in, I am capable of doing that. Welding seems like it would be stronger than simply bolting the thick steel bars to paper-thin sheetmetal unibody.

It would be nice to order the cage in separate pieces for less money, and pay a local welder to weld everything together/into the car. Shipping a 5x5ft item on a pallet overseas on a barge is about 400usd, and shipping a few metal bars all wrapped together in one cylindrical package would be pennies in comparison.

If anyone has this type of cage (with the door impact bars) plz post a picture of your cage.

if you have any [constructive] advice or opinions plz add your two cents.

This car will be a daily driver with racing seats and 4pt harnesses installed. There will be no helmets worn during daily driving.

Thanks!

 

im putting that style into my hatch ...use at least 1/8" steel floor plates and weld them in...before that place your main hoop in place and tack weld your rear bars in place at the top of the main hoop then you should be able to pull the cage out of the car to weld them fully if not you can hole saw through the floor to allow enough room to finish welding....once done with the rear you can put in your floor plates and finish weld those in place i recommend box ing them to the inner structure of the car not just the floor....once done there figure out the position of your door bars especially if you are retaining your interior this is crucial...you want it to be high enough to protect you in the event of a crash but not so high that your elbowing a huge steel pipe every time you move...then once it is all welded in place and all finished pad the hell out of it ...because with out a helmet youll surely knock yourself stupid a few times by accident...thats all i can think of right now im sure ill remember more later

 

Thought about putting one of these in my REX... Really want the JDM interior though. Might do both..... Will see how that pans out!

 

I am a dirt track racer, and have built dozens of cages over the years. At first, it can seem very daunting, but after you get a couple under your belt, it is actually VERY easy to do.

Im not sure what the cost of this pre-fab cage is, but if its more than $300 USD shipped to our door, than you may want to consider other options.

First option, you can easily (somewhat easily) build your own cage from scratch with very few specialzed tools required. Obviously, you need a welder. A small, 110v wire feed MIG will do DOM tubing just fine. You will also need a tubing notcher, and a torch. You can make a very decent tubing bender out of an old wheel and a little scrap tubing, or Harbor Freight has a decent pump jack bender that can be bought for under $100.

After that, its just measure, measure, measure. Take your time, and think out your install.

A second option would be to look for a racer and see what they would charge to build you a cage. Many racers are always looking for easy, extra cash. And cages are a snap fror them to build, so you might find someone that would build you one for a decent price.

Looking at the cage you have shown, I would estimate there is less than $100 in materials there. It also does not have gussets (reinforcements at all the connestion points), so I would not really trust it act as a true "roll" cage. It would work fine for chassis stiffness, but i would not trust my life with it. A custom built cage could be built with 10x the protection of that one for nearly nothing extra in material.

Ill try and get a few pic's of some "real" cages that I have built posted an maybe you can get a few alternative ideas from them.

 

these are all excellent points. i personally have less than 20hrs of welding experience (all wire-feed) under my belt so i wouldn't trust my welds in the event of a collision or roll-over. I can imagine it would be dangerous to have a car impact the side door bar of the cage and have a weld pop, firing one end of the bar into the cabin of the vehicle. Yes the cage will be thoroughly padded as well.

Im starting to think that paying a local welder/fabricator to build me a permanent cage welded into the unibody is the way to go. As you said the metal isnt the main expense, it's the assembly that you pay for when you buy pre-made. And you better believe there aren't any warehouses around the islands with a bunch of pre-fab cages to choose from. Anything I buy will be pre-fab and special-ordered from cali (if i'm lucky to find a distributor so close) and shipping IS NOT CHEAP ACROSS THE 6k MILES FROM CALI.

I will probably had all the joints double welded like you said - as in having corner reinforcements.. Not just corners like this....
_______
|.______
|.|
|.|
|.|

But more like...

_______
|.______
|.|././
|.|/./
|.|./

Any other tips plz share, and anyone with pics would be much appreciated..

thanks HT!

 

Just make sure you plate it on the other side. Otherwise it will just pop thru the sheetmetal.

IMO: Depending on what they are charging, I think you are better off getting it custom made by a pro or yourself. All you really need is a bender, cutter, and a notcher. Cut and fit it yourself, then take it to somebody to weld. My neighbor made several cages with tools from HF (except for his welder). Got to a point where he opened a shop with professional tools.

 

Yes I am on the same page as you. I hope to acquire these tools and do just like you said.

And yes, i will be sure to double-weld plates to the back of the attachment plates.

I have a welder I know of through a friend (I have seen his work building heavy-equipment trailers) and I will get in touch with him when I'm ready to get the cage build started.

as of now there are a few things first...
1) buy CRX
2) buy/install ALL chassis stiffeners/suspension/brakeswap etc
3)build fuel system (pump, upgraded wires/relays/killswitches etc)
4) take car to welder for planning (with d16 oem motor still running in chassis)
5) negotiate options/price/etc and leave the car (will probably take him 2wks for fabrication MINIMUM)
6)get car back, strip bay completely, paint bay
7)wiretuck install new b20v (built)
8)finish appropriate electronic mods (pwr windows/locks/shave door handles, cameras+monitor instead of mirrors etc) and alarm systems perfected.

thanks for the shouts.

plz throw some numbers at me so i know what to expect. if you were to fabricate and install a complete cage for a customer (with material cost included) what would you charge them.

i'm thinkin 1k usd is ballpark cost for complete cage + materials. close to reality?

 

Depends... If they are friends, I may build one for around $200 to $1,000... Some Joe Blow - $1,000 to $3,000 depending on how much integration was required. Cost material wise would be $300~$1,000 depending on what is being used/built.

So if I had to guess - a build consisting of just plain low grade carbon steel and a "fabricator" build, it would be around $1,500. My reasoning being the average minimum shop rate can be as low as $45 an hour and as high as $100. So on the cheap end and a typical standard 4 point cage should take around 20-30 hours. It really depends on material used, what it is welded with, how many people are working on it (to a point), and as said before - how much integration is required. When I say integration, I am referring to things like: bars going into the dash, around plastics/ mounting locations, ect - but mainly has to do with street vehicles that have interior to contest with.

 

The cage would hopefully be designed as follows. let me know how i could lower costs, by changing minor details, using different materials etc..

The rear of the cage would be welded to the shell near/behind the rear shock mounts. As close to the back of the vehicle as possible (while still tying into something with structure and strength - no thin metal skin that would just flex under load - i mean something solid.

The middle of the cage would be welded to the shell right behind the driver's seat. (Right where the shell 'steps up') at the rear of the seats (theoretically the seats would be untouched, allowing them to still slide forward/back)

The cage would have a vertical hoop in the middle, and the rear bars (mounted into shell as far back as structurally sound) would slant from the trunk area up to the corners of the vertical middle hoop. (The upper left of drivers head, and the upper right of the passengers head.)

Halfways down the vertical middle hoop (shoulder height?) there would be bars slanting forwards down to attachment points in/near the footwell. I would like to retain OEM door panels and I would modify the carpet with holes/slots to fit around the cage attachment point on the footwell. The angle of the front bar could be whatever angle - as I will have power windows installed and i can locate the switches on the door/console whereever i wanted to.

I may also need a bar bisecting the middle of the vertical hoop, for harness attachments.

Basically this is the shape and design, the attachment points are adjustable (whatever is easy/strongest)



(Those angled inner bars on the vertical hoop are not needed methinks.)

What do you think a reasonable cost (labor) to get all this fabricated/welded up in the car would be? (so I know what price range i'm expecting for labor alone.)

Basically i'm asking you if someone brought you a crx and a picture of this, what price would you happily take the job for?

 

I have this exact cage from jegs.com for $150 just needs to be welded.

 

It was for my crx but i modded it to fit my DC

 

First off on the rear bars you do not want to take it as far back. The best placement for the rear bars would be to attach them to the strut towers. (think the part of the car that actually flexes on side load) At the same point you could put a bar horizontally connecting the 2 rear bars for added strength.

If you search, most people put the main hoop on the edge of the shelf. Most people do the cross bar and not the small angled bars (making it an 6 point rather then a 8 point you have actually posted)

To actually be functional the door bars actually need to pass between shoulder and your elbow when sitting in driving position with arms approx. 3 and 9 o'clock. If you read the NHRA rule book it actually states to be certified this is a must. These bars may need to be bent if you plan on retaining the door panels to clear the armrests.

When it comes to lowering costs all you can really do is go with mild steel, get a kit from Jegs or someone similar (not sure how shipping would treat you, seeing as mild steel tends to be pretty heavy). Another option would be to find a local fabricator (most cities will have at least a couple) Tell him what you want work with him to get the measurements and go from there.

Look forward to following your thread as I will soon be installing my own 6 point in my new 91 hf shell.

 

Looks like it is only a rollbar.

 

so you bought the cage http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition-Engineering/247/3000/10002/-1 and when it showed up at your house it was a big wrapped up bundle of bars and you had to weld everything? or was the hoop pre-welded?

thanks

@slocrxsi

good information. when you say the side bars may need to be bent to clear the armrests - do you mean like a job in the bar to fit around the armrests when the door is closed? wouldn't putting a little jog in the pipe (instead of a straight pipe) make the side shoulder angled bars WAY weaker?

yeah I think i would have the rear bars attach to the shock towers, or right above on the wheel well - i don't have a crx in front of me so i don't know where the shell is thickest but that's where i'd tie the cage into.

and what would you do here...
-weld rear-bars above shock towers, connect each side with a horizontal bar (cutting through trunk space)
-weld rear-bars above shock towers, connect each side with horizontal bar AND use an aftermarket bolt-on strut tower brace

thanks guys

@essex - what looks like it's only a roll-bar?

 

Yep thats what id call a roll bar.

Finding someone locally who has experience in doing this might be better for you in the long run.

 

My ITA cage with NASCAR bars was $1,450, plus $200 for the seat installation. This was in 2008.

 

yeah i guess it is a 'roll bar' instead of a full cage.

1500 +/- is going to be my expected price for all this fabbed up and materials included.

bring 1500usd to my welder and tell him exactly what i want. thanks for the helps HT

 

I will say two things about that cage:

1: All sanctioning bodies require the main hoop to be one piece, so it comes as a main hoop, a really long peice of pipe bent into a hoop. Everything else is welded to the hoop. So your idea of welding corners will not work.

2: The roll bar pictured is a drag race roll bar for a Mustang. It may be fine for autocross, but My fabricator will not install one of those into my Mustang because I want to club race it in a few years. A road race roll bar will at least have a diagonal bar. If you are serious about building your car into a road racing car, I'd at least put something like this (again it's for my Mustang). You can at least see the diagonal brace and harness install braces.


If you are doing just autocross, you'd probably be just fine with one of these:


Auto Power makes bolt in cages for Honda's also. They are a great alternative. Not the greatest, but alot better than nothing. My cage will cost about $900, but at least I can install it myself. When I do make the jump, a full fabbed cage will cost me around $2000.

http://www.autopowerindustries.com/

 

thanks for the informative post.

the only reason I can't have a full cage like the one you posted is because this will also be a daily driver. I cannot commit to wearing a helmet 24/7 on trips to the grocery store and i wouldn't want my head unprotected near those upper bars. Even with racing harnesses, I still think my head could make contact with that bar in an accident.

what do you think?

thanks dude

 

Those diagonal door bars on the roll bar posted will be really awful for a DD.

Your best bet would be the Autopower Roll par, and they are about $500...

 

really awful because of why?

hard to get into the car, dangerous....? plz tell

 

If you're planning on daily driving the car with the cage, I wouldn't. When in an accident, your skull is going to split open like a watermellon when it hits one of the bars.

Personally, I would just get a custom full cage made. A roll hoop might keep the roof near your head from caving in, but if you land on the top of the windshield, the whole roof/windshield will still crush in on you.

And weld it rather than bolt it in. Your surface area attached to the shell is greater and transfers the load better. There's that picture of a mustang that went on its roof at a track day with a bolt in roll hoop, and the thing went straight through the floor and the whole roof got flattened.

As far as the door bars, that single diagonal isn't bad at all. I've got an X in the door on my rally car and it isn't easy getting in/out but it's not terrible. NASCAR style door bars would be harder to get in and out.

 

I agree.

That is correct. Do you think I can rule out this unfortunate possibility by using 4pt harnesses and ensuring they are buckled properly 24/7?
I found the pictures and read the story of how/what happened. I've decided to buy a welder and begin practicing so I can reinforce my chassis further and possibly weld up my own cage.
I'm thinking the diagonal bar will be adequate. I'm worried about what you said ^ having the windshield cave in and being thrown onto the dashboard and crushed. I'm not sure how I can resolve this, either using harnesses or committing to a full cage and then I would need to wear helmets on the way to work everyday.

thanks for the shouts