Suspension & Brakes Theory, alignment, spring rates....

Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 12:10 AM
  #1  
cesarjr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Default Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

What would be the best for an 04 Honda Civic 2dr?
Its automatic and will be daily driven.
I also want that aggressive stance.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 01:05 AM
  #2  
MindBomber's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

There are a few excellent options..

Progress CS1 $1050
Pros:
Smooth ride,
Capable of up to 3'' drop,
Quality Construction - Progress manufacturers OEM TRD products.

Cons:
Not dampening adjustable,
Made to order - slow to deliver.
Possible strength issues due to welded on arm.

Tein SS $1250 (I have these on me em2)
Pros:
16 way dampening adjustment
Smooth ride on low dampening settings, but quite firm higher up.
Tein Quality

Cons:
Prone to premature blowing when completely bottomed out.
Adjustment rings prone to seizing if not maintained.

Tein Street Basics $825 New product, not much hands on information available for these yet
Pros:
Tein Quality
Smooth ride?

Cons:
Not dampening adjustable.

Koni Yellow Dampers with Ground Control Sleeves $1100
Pros:
Ground Control sleeve quality,
Eibach springs,
Customizable spring rates,
Dampening adjustable,
Life time warranty on Koni dampers.

Cons:
Completely disassembled kit, the stock struts and shocks need to be disassembled and the koni dampers inserted, which is a substantial amount of work.

Tokico D-spec with Ground Control Sleeves $1000
Pros:
Ground Control sleeve quality,
Eibach springs,
Customizable spring rates,
Dampening adjustable,
Life time warranty on Tokico dampers.

Cons:
Damper performance lower than some other options.

Last edited by MindBomber; Oct 5, 2011 at 03:57 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 06:23 AM
  #3  
grumblemarc's Avatar
The Grumpiest
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 28,333
Likes: 24
From: Oak Ridge, TN, USA
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Dammit! We just HAD this conversation. Still not enough info though. Define "aggressive stance". State your budget. Help us help you.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 07:16 AM
  #4  
red4d16's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 92
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

You say that the stock dampers need to be disassembled and the Koni dampers inserted? We aren't talking about inserts here they are actual dampers that the GC coils sit on, It's not much work at all.

Don't forget too that the GC coils have a lifetime warranty as well.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 09:43 AM
  #5  
bnetkillzone's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by MindBomber
Koni Yellow Dampers with Ground Control Sleeves $1100
Pros:
Ground Control sleeve quality,
Eibach springs,
Customizable spring rates,
Dampening adjustable,
Life time warranty on Koni dampers.

Cons:
Completely disassembled kit, the stock struts and shocks need to be disassembled and the koni dampers inserted, which is a substantial amount of work.

$1100 sounds a little high, like with four tophats which most people dont need unless really slammed. The cheapest price ive found for GC/Koni is from NoLimitMotorsports for $825 total with free shippping and no taxes.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 09:53 AM
  #6  
red4d16's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 92
Likes: 2
From: Maryland
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

If you are going to be daily driving this car AND want an aggressive stance, you are gonna need some high spring rates to keep from bottoming out or rubbing. Given how hard it is to pinpoint exactly what you'd need because everyone's driving style is different, you'd be best off with an adjustable setup.

If you're not that mechanically savvy and just want something cheap to buy and throw in for looks, get a cheap coilover kit like F&F or Tein. If you care about suspension dynamics and want to do things right, go with a custom (450+) spring rates setup with sleeves and a high end adjustable damper. There are hundreds of people on this forum that swear by Koni/GC, me being one of them, and you can get a complete kit for around $900 when reusing your OEM tophats. Best bang for the buck and performance hands down.

Last edited by red4d16; Oct 5, 2011 at 10:26 AM.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 11:03 AM
  #7  
TunerN00b's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,539
Likes: 5
From: Sherman Oaks, CA, United States
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by red4d16
You say that the stock dampers need to be disassembled and the Koni dampers inserted? We aren't talking about inserts here they are actual dampers that the GC coils sit on, It's not much work at all.

Don't forget too that the GC coils have a lifetime warranty as well.
For double wishbone based cars, sure. Strut based cars are a bit more work, and the factory strut needs to be disassembled to install the new damper insert, which is the case for an 04 Civic.

GC sells sleeves with Eibach coil springs. Stating "dampers that the GC coils sit on" is a bit misleading, as the coil sits on the GC sleeve, and the GC sleeve sits on the damper.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 04:08 PM
  #8  
MindBomber's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by bnetkillzone
$1100 sounds a little high, like with four tophats which most people dont need unless really slammed. The cheapest price ive found for GC/Koni is from NoLimitMotorsports for $825 total with free shippping and no taxes.
That price would have been for a 88-00 civics, not a 01-05.

Originally Posted by red4d16
If you're not that mechanically savvy and just want something cheap to buy and throw in for looks, get a cheap coilover kit like F&F or Tein. If you care about suspension dynamics and want to do things right, go with a custom (450+) spring rates setup with sleeves and a high end adjustable damper. There are hundreds of people on this forum that swear by Koni/GC, me being one of them, and you can get a complete kit for around $900 when reusing your OEM tophats. Best bang for the buck and performance hands down.
F&F doesn't even make coilovers for 7th gens.

They aren't that inexpensive for 7th gens, see above.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:28 PM
  #9  
cesarjr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

I've been considering Progress Spring which gives 2" drop on the back and 1.8".
I guess to define my aggressive stance, it would be just to get ride of the gap between the tire and the fender. That would be it. I put in consideration that I'll be driving daily so I'mm leaning towards springs but would the drop of progress springs be enough for the stance I want? To get rid of that gap?
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:33 PM
  #10  
MindBomber's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by cesarjr
I've been considering Progress Spring which gives 2" drop on the back and 1.8".
I guess to define my aggressive stance, it would be just to get ride of the gap between the tire and the fender. That would be it. I put in consideration that I'll be driving daily so I'mm leaning towards springs but would the drop of progress springs be enough for the stance I want? To get rid of that gap?
Yes, a 1.8'' drop spring is enough to eliminate any wheel gap.

If you use springs, you'll still need to upgrade the struts to tokico blues at the minimum, but d-specs would be more appropriate.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 05:37 PM
  #11  
cesarjr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by MindBomber
Yes, a 1.8'' drop spring is enough to eliminate any wheel gap.

If you use springs, you'll still need to upgrade the struts to tokico blues at the minimum, but d-specs would be more appropriate.
Can I get links to those struts that I need?
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 06:04 PM
  #12  
MindBomber's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by cesarjr
Can I get links to those struts that I need?
http://www.dezod.com/pd_tokico_dspec...civic_0105.cfm
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 07:28 PM
  #13  
cesarjr's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

I honestly think with the low budget I have I'll just put the progress springs.
LOL

I was trying to only spend at least 300 to lower it.
Reply
Old Oct 5, 2011 | 08:17 PM
  #14  
MindBomber's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by cesarjr
I honestly think with the low budget I have I'll just put the progress springs.
LOL

I was trying to only spend at least 300 to lower it.
Then don't lower it.

Lowering springs will completely blow your struts out within a few months and you'll need to replace them and get an alignment. If your looking for a less expensive lowering option get tokico blues and a 1-1.5 inch lowering spring.
Reply
Old Oct 6, 2011 | 02:52 AM
  #15  
Libertariat's Avatar
Ek Forever y0!
 
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16,712
Likes: 9
From: Beating people with a stick, GA
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by MindBomber
Then don't lower it.

Lowering springs will completely blow your struts out within a few months and you'll need to replace them and get an alignment. If your looking for a less expensive lowering option get tokico blues and a 1-1.5 inch lowering spring.
Why bother getting tokico blues? They are OEM replacements.

If you're getting a mild drop you should get Koni Srt.
Reply
Old Oct 6, 2011 | 03:21 AM
  #16  
MindBomber's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Default Re: Full Coils vs ground control sleeves vs Springs

Originally Posted by Libertariat
Why bother getting tokico blues? They are OEM replacements.

If you're getting a mild drop you should get Koni Srt.
Koni Street has only been out for a year for 7th gens and not many people have used them, I know there a good damper for earlier gens, but that's a very different suspension design and I wouldn't recommend them without hearing a review from someone who has used them on a 7th.

Tokico blues are a different story, tons of people with 7th gens have been using them for years and continue to rave about them. Since they're proven to be a good, reliable damper on daily driven 7th gens they're what I recommend.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
left
Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
9
Mar 14, 2004 09:42 PM
phoenix down
Honda CRX / EF Civic (1988 - 1991)
31
Nov 10, 2003 02:32 PM
JaiDieM
Honda Prelude
1
May 17, 2003 10:32 PM
spd18
Acura Integra
12
Oct 28, 2002 06:41 PM
ExAcc
Road Racing / Autocross & Time Attack
6
Oct 3, 2002 05:04 AM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:58 PM.