Hi all, I have a seized motor or trans, will not turn over, no, not a battery or starter problem. Can't turn the crank pulley more than a lil bit back and forth.
I have pulled the oil pan , and romoved crank bearing assembly, and disconnected piston rods. The problem is, they have stoped at 2 pistons all the way up, and two all the way down. The two in the middle movefreely up and down, the 2 outer move very slightly, because the crank journals block them from going down. No visual sign of damage, on walls, or valve assembly.
I happened in the winter, very cold day, and I hotdogged it in first, for a block, at high revs, oops it just quit. No niose, smoke, nothing. My question is, can it have possibly seized something in the tranny? Trying to save from pulling whole motor and trans, or head, unless it is necessary.

Honda Civic LX 1993, D15B7 automatic, 65k

 

Not sure if serious... If you have two pistons siezed then the odds are your automatic trans is fine.

 

OK, 2 move freely, the other two are forced to the top of their travel, but do move up and down about an 1/8 inch, do to the fact that the crank journals are in the way.
I guess my question would be if anyone has heard or experience an auto trans seize up, therefore eliminating unnessary work of pulling the head ect.

 

If your trans seized then the engine would spin freely.

The torque converter would enable the engine to rotate and the tranny to be locked... just like what happens at a stop light.

 

Yes, I agree, my thoughts too. But if there were a failure in the torque converter mayby? Not sure if it possible to seize like that, the wheels do move freely, But when I rotate the crank slightly back n forth, as much as it moves, it feels like the trans is stopping it, a small vibration felt when hands on the torque conv gear, and metalic clank from the flex plate, as you know these can be tranfered thru things, so it is hard to tell. I wish the darn thing would have stopped with the pistons in the mid travel, then I could verify it easier, but the 2 that are at the top of thier travel do move slightly up and down, the crank is in the way.

 

From what I understand, the two questionable pistons are stuck at the TDC postion (close to the cylinder head).
Since the engine isn't running anyhow, I would unbolt those two rods from the crank.
Then you should be able to rotate the crank, right?

I don't think torque converters can seize, but who knows.

If I remember correctly, if you were to remove the tranny you would have to take the inspection plate off and then unbolt the flex plate from the torque converter.
If you don't then the tranny will never separate from the engine.
Hopefully it turns out to be your pistons.
IF you can't rotate the flex plate then you will never be able to unbolt it to separate it from the motor.

 

Yes, I know, I can't ratate the engine to remove the bolts on the flex plate, so this is a problem. The pistons, as stated before, are diconnected from the crank, that is how I know 2 will move freely and 2 move very slightly.
I would think even if the torque converter had a failure, the gears and clutch assembly would still be able to let me rotate the engine, so it still confusing, but I guess I will have to just remove the head, and see what the heck is up.
All valves, and rocker assemblies look OK, they will all move down with hand force. No visible signs of scoring on cylinder walls. No metalic debri in oil pan.

 

hi does anyone know if replacing a torque converter you have to take the whole engine out?

 

Raiderett,
I believe so, the torque converter will be bolted to a plate and on the other side, it will have a tube with a spline that inserts in the trans. Never messed with a rice burner, but typically that is the way they are on American cars.



To get back to my sitz, any Honda trans guys out there?
I pulled the head, oil pan, crank mains, pistons, no damage, no sieze on any moving parts involved with the motor, it appears to be the trans. Yes, an automatic, will not turn, appears NOT to be any engine parts. Anyone seen this b 4?

 

You are so full of it it's not even funny. The transmissions can be replaced in any FWD car without a subframe while leaving the motor in place - even then some cars can still be done. Listen kid, a auto transmission is an auto transmission, be it domestic or "rice burner" (it's domestic somewhere regardless). What you have to understand is the splines are what lock the trans to the torque converter so to speak. There is NOTHING bolted of fixed to the converter on the transmission side on any automatic produced thus far. The engine side is a different story - almost all torque converters are secured the the flex-plate by 3-4 bolts. The flex-plate is then attached to the crankshaft with bolts.

As far as your problem - I have seen torque converters seize, but there has to be some underlying problem for that to happen. There is a high possibility something broke internally (planetary gear, sunshell, retaining clip, ect...) and/or a piece made it through the filter into the TC.

Personally, I would take out the trans, take off the TC and work backwards - put the TC in the trans see if it spins - if not then there you go (hopefully) get a new one and repeat test (also be sure to check that the pump spins before you assume TC) - if it does spin then pull some things apart and take a look at the rotating components and beyond.

 

You N3va3vaSatisfi3d, said:
>>>>"You are so full of it it's not even funny. The transmissions can be replaced in any FWD car without a subframe while leaving the motor in place - even then some cars can still be done. Listen kid, a auto transmission is an auto transmission, be it domestic or "rice burner" (it's domestic somewhere regardless). What you have to understand is the splines are what lock the trans to the torque converter so to speak. There is NOTHING bolted of fixed to the converter on the transmission side on any automatic produced thus far. The engine side is a different story - almost all torque converters are secured the the flex-plate by 3-4 bolts. The flex-plate is then attached to the crankshaft with bolts.

As far as your problem - I have seen torque converters seize, but there has to be some underlying problem for that to happen. There is a high possibility something broke internally (planetary gear, sunshell, retaining clip, ect...) and/or a piece made it through the filter into the TC.

Personally, I would take out the trans, take off the TC and work backwards - put the TC in the trans see if it spins - if not then there you go (hopefully) get a new one and repeat test (also be sure to check that the pump spins before you assume TC) - if it does spin then pull some things apart and take a look at the rotating components and beyond. "


I say:

I am so full of it.... hmmm OK guru, one thing I dont need, you. The person asked if he had to remove the engine to replace a TC, well from what I see, it's either the engine or trans, the TC can NOT be removed w/o one or the other, mayby I should have clarified that the trans CAN be removed, thus enabeling removal of the TC on this Honda (rice burner), the engine is mounted by a mount on the upper driver side, the other mounts are on the trans, so, do you pull the trans, and support the engine left in the car, or the engine, not sure which is easier. BTW, I own 2, RICEBURNERS, (thats a nickname around here in the MOTOR CITY.) MX5 and a Civic and LOVE them. And as for the kid comment, lol, yes I am a 54 year old kid, love mechanics, electronics, music, and have dabbled in all of it.
Built several motors in my days, all DOMESTIC, American cars, RWD, yes, new to my Civic's engine and trans tricks. ALL have been TC bolted to a plate, some 3 or 4 bolts, this Civic, several bolts on the plate, and yes I know about the spline into the trans. So lighten up guru, I never claimed to be a master mechanic.
And um, please read the posts, specifically mine, so you can understand wth is going on, b 4 you spill your trash talk.
Thank You for your kindness.

 

I hate on everyone so calm down; I also have you by almost a decade. This isn't a pissing match or comparing, ahem, sizes. I just can't stand when people give out false information on the World Wide Web to people who shouldn't be touching cars in the first place.

It is always more time consuming to do more work. Removing the engine would require draining the coolant, additional mounts, exhaust, lines/cables, ect... By the time you do all that you could have had the transmission out and apart already, possibly half way back in too. I must reiterate one thing though - a car no matter where it comes from still operates on the same basic principles (as long as it's a lateral move - ex. Piston/gas, diesel, rotary, ect.). If you understand one, you should be able to figure out a lateral move. There are also "domestic" FWD cars that date back in the 60's - Oldsmobile Toronado being one of them.

Also, the Internet is hard to read and understand how people are coming across. Don't take things to heart so easily.

 

^^ N3va3vaSatisfi3d's way of saying 'sorry that I hurt your feelings. Maybe we can have some make-up-*** later'

 

Remove the motor to access torque converter?

 

ThatRicerDaniel, is that a picture of your boyfriend? GO AWAY. Can you block people on here?



I read you quite clearly.

I DON'T hate everyone, just people like you.
quote: "I just can't stand when people give out false information on the World Wide Web to people who shouldn't be touching cars in the first place."

Mayby you were born with a monkey wrench in your hand, but some others are not. I dont want to play games with your ego, I care less how big your parts are, how grey your hair is, or your the number on your inteligence test. The person asked if the the engine had to be removed to replace the TC, I believe I stated " I believe so..." and not asking which model car he has, shoot me, beat me, kill me. Not knowing his model, I can't give an answer to which is best, in RWD, the trans, a FWD, not sure. In my Civic, the engine is VERY simple to remove, where as the trans appears to be a little more difficult. I had the engine completely torn down to the block in a few hours. The trans requires wheels removed, ball joints removal, shaft removal, trans lines, shift linkage, engine bolt attachments, a couple mounts, fluid drainage, electric harness detachment, ect... something I am not looking forward to. Not a trans man.. Which is easier, time will tell.
Quote: "I must reiterate one thing though - a car no matter where it comes from still operates on the same basic principles (as long as it's a lateral move - ex. Piston/gas, diesel, rotary, ect.). If you understand one, you should be able to figure out a lateral move."
Brilliant deduction... But wth does that have to do with his question?
Lateral move?? Are you a football fan? lol
lat·er·al (ltr-l)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or situated at or on the side.
2. Of or constituting a change within an organization or a hierarchy to a position at a similar level, as in salary or responsibility, to the one being left: made a lateral move within the company.
3. Linguistics Of, relating to, or being a sound produced by breath passing along one or both sides of the tongue.
n.
1. A lateral part, projection, passage, or appendage.
2. Football A lateral pass.
3. Linguistics A lateral sound, such as (l).
v. lat·er·aled also lat·er·alled, lat·er·al·ing also lat·er·al·ling, lat·er·als also lat·er·als Football
v.intr.
To execute a lateral pass.
v.tr.
To pass (the ball) sideways or backward.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just teasing... rofl
Basic principles of an internal combustion engine are the same in all models, true, but they are all designed differently, so therefore require different methods of attack for repair. What is the Toronado statement for...lol omg you are a card. You forgot the Eldorado 1967, or even further back the Voiturette ~1896, so what?
Please, and I ask nicely, GO AWAY.
I am here to find people with the knowledge to solve MY cars problem, and I am wasting time typing to a card like you, although very entertaining, it is a waste of my time, and yours.

To get back to my cars problem, it IS the trans seized. Not quite sure yet what part, but it appears to be the pump. Correct me if I am wrong, but on the cars I have worked with in the past, the TC is directly linked to the pump, the hydraulic link through the TC is tranfered through another spline shaft to the internal trans gearing. No? Therefore it would appear that a failure has ocurred in the pump. Anyone, but the card, please respond.
Thank You

 

Just a couple points.

Your dictionary is outdated, but noun #1... I don't watch football in the slightest.
The Toronado was a FWD vehicle.
Now back to business - enough of the banter.

It is possible for your pump to fail and cause the transmission to seize. The torque converter has 2 flat spots on it (as with almost all autos) that drives the trochoidal pump. The inner ring can shatter causing the torque converter to "seize" inside the pump from some of the fragments "pinning" it.

 

I was just reading through, and noone mentioned putting the car in neutral. Sorry if this was a dumb comment, op but i had to put it out there.... Gl with the car!

 

<<<<ah, real info, ty, just what I have been thinkin... lol, most thought I am crazy, "automatic trans seize?"..

 

It has been tried in all gears, PRND ect, car rolls free, xept park
But this is the crank refusing to rotate. In an automatic, the gears may be hydraulic control, and may do any change till pressure is in the control sytem, (engine running rotating trans pump) xept for park, which is usually a mechanical link, yes no?

 

Yes - all the gears are hydraulically controlled in one way or another. The only position that isn't is Park. This has a "pin" or "pawl" (more like a gear tooth) that engages the rotating assembly of the transmission.

 

Pretty sure you will find you will have to take the engine and trans out together to remove the auto trans,I don't think you will have enough roon to pull the trans off the TC and remove it and if you can't turn the crank to get access to all the bolts on the flex plate(10 I think) then you will probably have to pull engine and trans in one.

 

After he separates the motor and transmission a little bit it should disengage the binding. Then he could spin the flexplate as needed - there is no need to remove the flexplate, only the torque converter. These Hondas were designed to be able to remove the transmission without the engine. This is obvious due to the design of the crossmembers and mounts. If it is your desire to needlessly drain the coolant and oil, then set aside power steering and A/C (if equipped), open the fuel system, and mess with an exhaust that may be nothing but trouble due to rust; then be my guest.

 

God...this has gone too far....

Do this:

Remove the guard/plate that is bolted to the transmission. Plate is on the right side of the transmission next to the oil pan.

Then, taking a 10mm socket and wrench, remove the bolts that hold the flexplate to the torque converter. Put them aside somewhere safe.

Now your engine should be able to turn free.

If it does, then you know what you have to do next. You can pull the engine and trans out and swap or whatever floats your boat.

 

Been said already. Got an idea for how he can take the top bolts out of the flex-plate if he can't rotate the engine to get to them?

 

Yes - unbolt the trans from the block, Use a prybar to wedge in between. Separate the two by about 1/2" inch or more, Then use the same prybar to push the torque converter out of it's seated position and spin free..