I'm trying to diagnose an intermittent problem I'm having with my EM1.

I have a factory service manual for the 96-00 civics, but it's not much help. I'm looking for a schematic that shows me what all is in the ignition/starter/fuel pump/main relay circuit. What feeds the main relay, etc.

Here's what happened the other day, maybe somebody knows something.

I try to start the car and all I get is a buzzing/clicking from the main relay. The battery was fine because the windows, blower, locks, lights, everything worked fine.

If I turned the key to the start position to try to crank it, the relay would just chatter, and nothing else came on. The fuel pump didn't prime either.

So my wife and I go to tow the car home and just for the hell of it I did a 3rd gear clutch pop to see if it would fire up. It did and ran fine.

Got the car home and shut it off and tried to start it up again and it fired right up. So what gives?

Anyway, back to my original question, I'm trying to see if anybody has a copy of the main relay circuit layout.

Thanks

 

Could be your starter. It doesn't sound like an ignition problem. And even if your accessories work your battery may still be bad. Do the cheap stuff first: Have the battery checked at a auto parts store, if that checks out then take out the starter and have it checked at a auto parts store.

Edit:
Also check for blown fuses, although I don't think that's it.

 

http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelay.html

 

It's your starter man. My car had the same symptoms. Replaced the starter and everything was perfect.... easy fix too so it couldn't hurt.

 

Look at the relay solder joints for small cracks. I re-heated up the solder and fixed my broken main relay

 

I agree with what's been said. Have the battery and starter tested, and also clean and tighten the battery connectors and ground wire.

 

Thanks for the suggestions so far, but pretty much all your concerns have been looked at.

I actually pulled the main relay out and plugged it into a friend's HX and it fired right up. Moved it back over to my car later in the day and it had the same symptoms again. I did pull it apart and touched up all the solder joints. None of them looked bad, but since I had it out, and saw somebody mention it here I figured why not.

Battery is known to be good. It's only about a year old and I actually pulled it out of my Element.

The starter....not sure about that one. It's the original starter. But if it was going bad, why would it be good to go again after the car had been push started and shut off?
I've also started the car about a dozen times since then and it never had a hickup. So taking it to get tested probably won't do any good.

All my fuses are good.

Grounds and battery connections are clean, since I just dropped this engine back in and everything is pretty much the way it was the day it rolled out of the factory.

 

Starters that are on the way out can fail intermittently. Some people whack the starter with a rubber mallet to get it to crank -- this is a good sign that the starter is the problem. Since you just swapped the engine in, did you also clean and tighten the transmission ground, which grounds the starter motor?

By the way, the main relay has absolutely nothing the do with the starter. I suspect that you were hearing the starter solenoid clicking not the main relay.

 

Yeah, I've learned my lesson with dirty grounds. They're all bare metal to metal and painted over once tight.

And the clicking/buzzing/chattering sound was indeed the main relay. I pulled the glove box down, took off the side cover and took the 10mm bolt off the let the relay just lay there. I had my hand on it and could feel it buzz/chatter while I was turning the key.

Going to start carrying a hammer with me in the car now in the hopes that it does it again and I can test your starter whacking method.

 

Would the main relay buzz only with the key in ON(III)? Or also ON(II)? Did the CEL remain on steady? Can I assume the G101 ground on the thermostat housing is also clean and tight?

 

The funny thing is that when it was acting up, in the II position the dash lights would light up, but sort of dim, and the fuel pump didn't prime, and I'd get that weird chattering buzzing sound from the relay.

The III position would kill all that, no clicks from any starter relay (not sure if the EM1's is down by the under dash fuse box or not), but when I let id go back to the II position it sometimes would go back to chattering, sometimes not.

And yep, the stat housing ground is clean as well.

I might try to run a couple more ground wires from the tranny and the block just for good measure.

 

You may also want to check the ignition switch.

 

Will do. Thanks. Will report back if I find something.
To-do list for tomorrow is getting longer and longer.
fab up grounds
recheck all fuses
check ignition switch
weld up flange for stock cat

I miss how this car was 11 years ago when I bought it brand new.

 

Well don't think about selling it... EM1's are rare these days. Have the battery tested, and stop assuming anything is good. It costs nothing to have it checked. I've heard stories of batteries doing weird things unexpectedly.