I had an opportunity to dyno my car last night.
Not a great dyno, but worth it.


Despite how displeased the shop owner was, I thought it was a decent run for a 95 GSR Engine with JR Supercharger, Intake only and custom bent 2.5 exhaust with STOCK HEADER, and the ORIGINAL SEVEN YEAR OLD CAT.

Considering a B20 VTEC with lightened flywheel, headers, exhaust, cams, tranny with final drive and LSD (I think) turned the same HP on the same dyno a few minutes before, I wasn't disappointed.

I have a TON I could do to increase the HP, but it's nice to see what I've done pay off so much. I can still do headers and catalytic converter and gain a great deal, I think, and having a Hondata dealer tune the fuel would also help a lot, I think.

But, nonetheless, not bad.

Shawn


[Modified by shawnhayes, 5:25 PM 9/30/2002]

 

I think your torque should be much higher than that. That's like a stock torque figure for a b18c with I/H/E. Horsepower isn't bad...not great...but not bad either

 

We thought so too. I think the custom bent exhaust is not as good as it could be, and the lack of a header and actual WELL WORKING catalytic converter is hurting that a lot. So, yeah, I agree. I think a lot more work would help in that category.

Shawn

 

hmm 118tq with a jr supercharge? something is diffently wrong here, you should be up in the 140-150lbz tq range.

My b20vtec with jsut built block with Ross 11.5 piston no head work with usdm dc 4-1, 2.5 cat back with test pipe on es oval, I mad 162whp and 130lbz tq with the mugen program. This is a baseline run not tune.



[Modified by SiBirdie, 8:15 AM 9/28/2002]


[Modified by SiBirdie, 8:16 AM 9/28/2002]

 

Shouldn't a B20 vtec get more then that to the wheels? There is a guy here w/ just a reg B20 at our local shop that made around 172 to the wheels w/ no vtec just a built bottom block w/ rods and pistons, cam gears, header, exhaust, intake. If Vtec head is put on it should see around 200 or more......especally if u have it built. But i maybe wrong.......Please let me know cause I have a JDM B20B right now and is starting to built it for VTEC

 

It's probably the lack of a header and an old cat.

That's still killer. I consider it a big deal that I made more than 162whp with 0.2 less liter displacement. The torque of the B20 is what makes it so desirable.

I have to say, frankly, that the tendency of aftermarket suppliers to find any way to make the top horsepower sound bigger is one of the reasons we all expect higher numbers out of what we get. This amount of horsepower for my 2000 lb (or so) car is more than adequate.

When you look at ITR's on chassis dyno's, I'm putting down about the same (and maybe a little more) wheel horsepower than some of the stock ITR's. When you consider this is with a GSR motor with NO REAL WORK other than a bolt on supercharger, I think this is a very big deal.

Also, good tuning can extract TONS of good HP from my combination, and I haven't done this significantly. (Hondata's stock map they sent me was conservative, and I wanted it to be so. What I wanted was an occassional racer with daily driver reliability.)

Shawn

 

Those are still very respectable numbers Looks good. C'mon now Shawn you still have the stock cat?, I'm sure that is definitely hurting some numbers with that stock header. With that in mind on a FI motor, those are nice numbers with lots of room to work with.
By the way- what pulley are you running?


[Modified by ill phil, 6:31 PM 9/28/2002]

 

considering a friend of mine squeezed out 218 hp out of a 1.6, id say you have a lot of tuning to do, dont give up though, just keep at it. good luck

 

Those are NOT respectable numbers.Thats a LOT of money spent for NO gain.Sorry to be blunt,but thats the truth.My little ol B16 layed down 192/132 with just a couple mods.And then 219 by upping the boost.Somethings up with your car/blower.get it looked at so you actually get some performance from your hard earned dollars.Anyone that tells you those numbers are ok knows nothing about JR superchargers.

 

My eyes are bad...but is that 118 tq? Damn, I did 161whp, 123 tq on my b18c1 with just bolt ons.

-Rod

 

my old 1998 gsr did 208hp/ 164tq at the wheels with jrsc and I/H/E. Your numbers are way low

 

Am I seeing things or does that say 170whp?

WTF?

Shawn are you sure your car is running up to full potential?

I had a pal of mine with a stock GS-R with stock exhaust, header, and a filter on a stick dyno 202whp with only a Jackson Racing blower.

???

And I'm not trying to **** you off, but my i/e and re-chipped ECU B18C5 put down 175whp and 123ft/lbs. of torque. This was with the STOCK ITR exhaust manifold and catlytic convertor! I will dyno soon after I get my 2.5'' CarSound cat to go with my newly installed DC JDM 4-1 header with 2.5'' collector.

Something must be wrong man...

 

If 20hp and 3-5tq are respectable for spending 2500-3000 on a supercharger... ok then.

 

something IS wrong

no way in hell can those numbers reflect a proper running engine/blower

 

Maybe I'm bias to these numbers because I have never been that impressed with JR charged cars that I've raced or dynos I've seen. I think that Shawn's numbers are a good 20-30 hp increase as just a bolt on to a stock motor. What I'm sure he realizes by pointing out the stock header and cat, is that when you bump up the intake like that a necessary increase in exhaust is needed as well to see a really significant increase. I'm sure just by swapping the header and cat he'd put down the numbers most would expect out of a decently strong SC GSR. So yes the torque may seem low, and hp not exactly what people expect, but with a few small changes I'm confident he'd be right where everyone expects.
People can flame me if they please for saying this and talk about #'s they've seen or heard about, but each engine and each dyno is different. Also by sheer dynamics if you force more air into the engine, exhaust will need to be increased as well to see maximum potential- just my opinion.


[Modified by ill phil, 3:46 AM 9/29/2002]

 

Sorry but a stock GS-R motor puts down at least 150whp usually.

So what we're saying here is that a $3,200.00 supercharger kit that adds 20whp is acceptable? I'm sorry but I've seen all-motor B18C1 motors that had just a CTR intake cam, Skunk2 manifold, i/h/e, and ECU tuning that made close to 170whp and they are still N/A.

Shawn Hayes is my boy. I'm not talking **** on him nor his set-up. I'm just trying to point out that these numbers are NOT the type of numbers that a JRSC'd B18C1 should be outting out. Stock header, cat, intake, whatever - it doesn't matter. 20whp from BOOST is not right. If that were the case then I'd say that the JRSC is a total waste of money.

...But it's not the normal case so I think Shawn needs to do a compression test and start from there. Something is wrong with that motor - period. Perhaps the blower itself has gone wrong somewhere?

 

Motherflower, your *** better take a vacation and come down here to FL and get that thing dynoed with our hondata dealer, wide band, and everything on the spot, plus you get to enjoy hot *** Florida.

You can improve greatly by allowing that exhaust out of your car, with a header,highflow cat, yadda yadda. The numbers should be much much higher regardless of that bottle neck that you have.


Do you have a the chart for the a/f ratio ? Im willing to be that you have a caca map. Even on stock ecu program the numbers should be higher.

But its okay you still my daddy

 

Yeah make no mistake - Shawn knows that he and I have a good e-relationship/friendship and I swear I'm not trying to kick him down.

Shwan update us on the latest on your car - I'm just concerned, that's all.

 

Hahah- I definitely feel you. Why do you think I'm going all motor? Like you said there are several other factors that could be causing the numbers to reflect as they are, and that's why I stated every motor is different hence there might be other factors in this. But for everyone to just jump on and immediately say that the charger was a waste of money is not getting the point. It's hard for me to disagree with what Tom is saying because I'm sure that he has come across more JRSC'd cars than I have
As for me- I wouldnt spend the money on a SC, I'm just trying to get my point across to people who just look at the dyno and criticize. At least some people in the thread with personal experience have helped out to you guys.

 

Whats the A/F look like? Wheres timing set at? Where are your fuel pressures? Do you have a slipping belt? A bad blower to start with?These are the areas you need to address FIRST AND FOREMOST,before anything else.The powers there,you just have to find it,unless you have a motor with low compression to start with.That,well,thats a totally different story.Do a compression test,and then look at the things i mentioned at the beginning of this post.If you have any questions IM me if im on the site.Ill do what i can to help you out and get that thing to where it should be.

 

Yeah, it may have shot back the same HP - but the differance is in the torque! CRVTEC w/ only 170ish HP sounds like crap too... Your numbers for being supercharged look way off bro.

 

Couple of Q's.....How does a dynapack dyno compare to a dynojet? Did you get a baseline before the sc install?

Those numbers do look low Shawn, but without a frame of reference, its hard to tell if they're truly "off" using the dynapack. Isn't that the one where they pull off you're wheels to measure hp/tq?? I don't suppose you got a/f?? I was going to suggest you try hondata, but you already have that! Can you datalog?

Steve

 

Wow, lots of stuff to talk about here. I'll do them in order (although some of them interrelate).

BS. You apparently have no idea what "NO gain" means. I'm putting down what's factory flywheel horsepower to the wheels. If the supercharger overcomes the drivetrain losses, that's worth it to me (with my plans for this motor, anyway). Additionally, this is on a dyno VERY different than a Dynojet. Dynapacks are a lot different (more below).

On my last dyno pull, one of the Jackson Racing installed hex screws (around the bypass valve) fell out, inducing a BIG TIME vacuum leak. This may certainly be a problem. Could it explain the lower numbers? Maybe, but there's SO MUCH MORE to talk about.

I'm actually quite certain that's it's not. Seven year old cat and stock header (wayyy rusty) with a dent in the bottom is certainly a problem. I bought things in an ***-backard method with some interesting reasoning (got a GREAT deal on the blower, primarily). Got tons of work to do.

This is what I'm actually expecting. More below.

Not pissed off at all. I consider this run on this dyno with these numbers quite acceptable. Even being near ITR on a DynoJet numbers is very respectable. (hmm, maybe I should have responded to these OUT of order)

True. Stock GSR puts down 150whp on a Dynojet. My supercharger cost $2500. This is the biggest reason I bought it before the header and cat I SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT FIRST. This was roughly the difference, when I bought it, of getting a Type R motor. I didn't have the cash to get a Type R at the time, so I've been getting to Type R numbers one step at a time. I'm already there (but actually, probably I'm above it).

This may in fact be the case. I'm in the process of a teardown right now, fixing the vacuum leak. I've never compression tested, and maybe as things go along, I might start (although, at the moment I don't think I have to worry)

I'm fly with that. I definately need a Hondata tuner to be on this biotch. I don't plan on that until I get the rest of the powertrain up to my standard though.

Rich under boost using the stock A/F. I need a bung for the dyno's wideband.

Stock and stock. No tuning done yet. I'm going slow. This is ONLY the beginning of many dyno plots to come.

Exactly. The CRVTEC (at which I'm not liberty to talk much about) has NASTY racecams, fully race (and street) legal exhaust, headers, fully tuned, V-AFC, and dual ram air intakes. It put down somewhat more torque than I did (expected), but there's more to the story. Slightly more below.

AH HA! Herein is the kicker. This dynapack is KNOWN to be fully 15% under a DynoJet. I refused to doctor the numbers to make them look equivalent - I think doing that is the ***** way out - I thought only posting the REAL plot was legitimate. But, using the CRVTEC previously mentioned, we calculated an equivalent 195hp and equivalent 135 ft/lbs of torque. This can only be a guess though. A B18B put down 118 whp with a lot of bolt ons. We think this dyno is way low. It was still educational, though, and I thought it would be a great topic of discussion (as we can all see it has).

Nope. I'm doing things in a very specific order. I thought it would be a waste of time and money to do a dyno before I got everything I've planned. I knew I wanted a supercharger when I started, so I didn't care what it had before the supercharger (and frankly I'm not really concerned about these numbers now either, unless they indicate an unhealthy bottom end, which based on the thoughts above is unlikely). Actually, this dyno run may have been an act of divine intervention. I was at our local drag track for a fun run, but it got rained out. My friends and I just ran around until we found our other Honda friends, who just happened to be doing a late night dyno tuning session on the previously mentioned race ready CRVTEC. I knew about the dyno, and I was considering visiting it later, when it fit into my plans. Everyone there wanted to see a supercharged B18C1 on the dyno. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse. On the third run, the GIANT vacuum leak developed when the aforementioned screw wiggled loose. God only knows what would have happened if I HADN'T been rained out at the drag track. This screw came loose on a dyno in front of two experienced mechanics (three if you count me). A problem that was devloping magically happened at the most convenient time in the most convenient place and no harm resulted from the malfunction. Somebody is looking out for me, goodness knows why.

Yep. Wheels gotta come off. VERY different than a dynojet.

Yep. Rich at all times under boost (my intention actually - I don't want to approach ANYWHERE NEAR LEAN UNDER BOOST until I have finished ALL of my modifications). I had Hondata give me a conservative map to start with.

I've got a stage 3B, but I don't think datalogging is enabled. I'm considering upgrading to the new s200 system at 4B with datalogging, but considering my plans for an ABSOLUTELY ROCK SOLID daily driver (in other words, I plan on running it under full potential except under very rare conditions), I don't know if that would be worth the expense.

In summary, what appears to be very low numbers for a JRSC'd B18C1 are probably a very different dyno. If our calculated corrections are right, then actually I'm very pleased. 195whp before ANY timing tuning, any cam gears, a much needed header and actually functioning catalytic converter? Wow. Imagine what it's going to look like when I get done with the rest. I figure getting an extra 25hp out of tuning alone (based on the fact I'm running rich at all times), but this may only be a half-assed guess.

Shawn


[Modified by shawnhayes, 10:32 PM 9/29/2002]

 

Whew! Thanks Shawn, now I don't feel like such a dumbass for saying what I said

 

Nah. Nobody who has responded has been a dumbass.

I was a little testy about the "no gain" stuff, when you consider 170whp on ANY dyno with any resemblence to accuracy with a GSR motor is nothing to sneeze at.

But, of course, compared to a DynoJet, this would be disappointing for a $2500 forced induction system.

The way some people on this board talk about JRSC's, I'm surprised they haven't been by saying that the amount of HP should have been WORSE than stock.

Shawn