Need some help from someone with knowledge of these.

Have an 89 CRX HF, drove into storage 10 yrs ago, took out and tank was rusted from inside. Swapped in complete tank, replaced few inches of line due to rust. Checked it out, then gave it a crank. Nothing.

Started trouble shooting, this is what I've found.

1. Have good spark
2. Timing good
3. Put fuel in cyl will start briefly
4. Have 12v at each injector
5. Have - pulse at inj from ECU

So, injectors not opening. DO GET CODE 16. Removed Main relay and resoldered all pins, I'm ISO 9001 certified in soldering so I'd hope all is good there, maybe corrosion internally on contacts???

Checked the resistor box also.

At this point not sure what to think, I've read that Peak and Holds take about 6 amps to open, these are my theries...

maybe a bad connection to ECU, not enough current available?

Maybe 4 bad injectors?

Dizzy issues?,, but I do get spark

Swapped ECU with one from Junk yard, maybe bad also?

Needs new main relay anyway?

What is most common in this situation, I like trouble shooting and fixing, Just seems that these should be firing and they aren't. Seems unlikely that 4 inj go bad, maybe takes 1 to not start? Help is appreciated, thanks

 

Worth a shot, but check your fuse #14. Actually just put a new one in for safe causes. Main relay could just be shot. Did you hook your connections back up on the fuel pump right and tight?

 

Open the main relay, reflow all the joints.

 

What? How about going to a junk yard and trying to get the fuel pump relay from another CRX or hatch? You would save a lot of time and effort.

 

Congratulations on your 1st post n00b and welcome to ht. We need more like you.

If you are certain of your measurements at the injector connectors then:

1. Fuel filter is clogged. Rusted tank, lines etc. Pull the return line after the fuel rail, place a rag to catch the gas, and turn key to ON and leave it there. DO NOT turn key to start! Rag should be wet.

1a. New gas?

2. Injector jets are clogged. Old fuel will form gunk. Measure resistance across the 2 contacts to make sure the coils are not open. Try another set of injectors. You can also crank for a few seconds and pull plugs to smell for gas in the cylinder or plug.

3. If you feel up to it you can apply 12 volts and GRND to the injectors to test and listen for a click.

4. Sell me the HF, I need a gas sipper.

EDIT = CODE 16 is bad injector

 

Could be bad inj, main relay, and I guess distributor can also throw code 16 from what I see. probably bad ground, or connection in harness to ECU. Anything that causes a resistance or starvation of current to ECU I believe will throw code 16 from what I see.

I'm planning on bypassing main relay and sending 12v straight to the ECU tonight. I'm pretty good at auto electrical, been under dashes wiring and trouble shooting for over 15 years, just don't know

1. what the best way to verify injector opening is,
and
2. I know I have voltage at inj, how do I verify correct current to open? to brief of a pulse to check with a meter.

 

You still need to check that fuel is getting to the rail. Pull the return line after the fuel rail, place a rag to catch the gas, and turn key to ON and leave it there. DO NOT turn key to start! Rag should be wet. I would do this after the filter and then after the FPR fuel press regulator too to eliminate any doubts.

You wont see the pin move. The solenoid valve is internal. You see is the ports that
direct gas flow. Honda injectors are plentiful at yards or other sellers here. You can try to soak them overnight in gas or fuel induction cleaner. youtube has videos showing how to clean injectors. That would answer a lot of questions if you can apply voltage and see fluid flow.

I'm gonna go with bad injector - not saying ALL will go bad at the same time. 1 will flash the code. Signs point to that. Main relay? doubtful.

I'll buy the HF if in good condition

 

its in great condition, like I think I said, I've had it in storage since around 1998ish? Yes, I have pulled the return line at the end of the rail, yes, get lots of fuel. Did forget that in my last post.

I'm new here, definatly not new with cars or Hondas. I love the challange of diagnosing, and electrical problems are what I enjoy most of all. I'm a bit off probably. Just fixed a crown vic about 2 weeks ago, 2 shops couldn't fix, found bad spot in wire harness between firewall and inner fender. Had to pull inner fender to access it, it was buried!

Don't have tons of time on this one, family is demanding time right now. Made some assumptions based on other hondas that they are very resilient and forgiving. but this one seems to have what it needs, but something is slightly off, but enough to create problems

Anyway, here is the update,

pulled main relay, something just not sitting right with me about it. Decided to pull all solder off every connection and re-solder. plugged back in and now it pops and sputters, attempting to start, but still no start. but a move in the right direction. Next, unpluged the main relay, checked ground, good!, checked 12v constant, down by .5 - .75 v from bat +. Same on the other hot to the relay. Now I'm thinking maybe it is a connection at the fuse box or somewhere else down the line in the harness. My manual shows the connection of the main relay to the bat constant, but doesn't show all the plugs. Tomorrow I will trace through more I guess. I still think it has to do with current, more so now being that I've seen a change after resoldering the relay, the first time I just reflowed it. Thanks again and any other ideas are defiantly appreciated and gives me something else to try.

 

Sounds like you have it in hand. Trace it out.

 

i had the same rusty gas tank problem with my hf but i am no mechanic so i had it towed to a shop to diagnose my problem. the mechanic said that there are screens that the fuel runs through just before they reach the injectors and that they were completely clogged with rust particles. also, my fuel pump relay needed to be replaced. he cleaned my gas tank and said it's good to go but i feel i should replace it anyway. i just bought a new gas tank and am going to attempt to install it as soon as i get some time off work.

i hope this info helps you out.

 

thanks,

be aware, if the tank is rusty, everything associated with the tank is probably also rusty. My bolts that hold the straps looked decent, but once I dropped the tank I was able to see the extent of the problem.

Under the car the steel lines were shot. Where they passed into the car through the rubber boot the rust stopped. Inside lines look like new, inside and out.

Had to cut both 8mm fuel lines (pressure and return) about an inch into the car to get rid of the rusty end. tried throwing a double flare onto the ends but not enough room to really get it done correct, so I settled for 5/16 injector hose and clamps, not ideal.

My pump wasn't working so no rust really got up into the lines, if a few particles somehow ended up in there I was ok with it, being that these cars have the filter up front.

So... moral of story, if this is a daily driver, heads up... give yourself plenty of time. Don't assume you can knock this one out in an evening and still make it to work the next morning. I have plenty of other vehicles to choose from, this is a project I've just decided to play with. No time frame for me. Hopefully some of what I've ran into gives you things to look for.

Lastly, I went the route of a used tank rather than a new tank made in china. I put on 2 of those "new" tanks on a plow truck I had years ago. within a year, both were starting to rust, and I had primed and painted them with rustoleum. I don't think they seal all the seams well, and your new tank will be in the condition of your 20yr old tank in only 4-5yrs. Just a thought, a clean used can be purchased on ebay for the same money as a new.

 

Did you cross the lines when you cut them? Wat I mean is did you connect the fuel feed line to the return line and the return line to the feed line?? It bhappened to my friend. We had to drop the tank half way switch the lines and it fired right up

 

All suggestions from people I've made sure I either test or that I'm 100% on them. The last suggestion about the fuel lines did make me wonder, as dumb as it sounds, it is defiantly something that would be easily done and then over looked. so I went back and verified this one also. Unfortunately I had it correct.

I've since taken a jumper wire from my battery post to the under hood fuse box main power in. Surprisingly code 16 has now gone away, still no start, but it does pop and try to. Now sounds like a bad tune up or maybe bad fuel pressure.

I have a pressure gauge for german cars, don't see a way to hook it up unfortunatly, even though they're both metric... darn.

Maybe need to change my brand new plugs with 0 miles on them from 1998. probably pick some up, would think it would still start but maybe not???

 

Have you tried starting the car using starting fluid?
If the car runs you know for sure it is a fuel problem you are dealing with.

 

Check "HAZ" marked 10 / 15Amp fuse in the passenger side fuse box.

Although, I don't know why you are looking at the main relay and elsewhere. You are getting FP so the relay works. You have spark. I am 90% certain it is your injectors.

 

Start with basics....check main relay, fuel filter, fuel injector pump ( may be clogged due to **** that was in the gas tank and lines and check fuel pump, also check the dizzy

 

Start by reading what information the OP has already posted . . . stop, hammertime!

 

CRAP! I already bought one of those made in China tanks. I won't be driving this car in the winter though, so maybe I will have better luck with it than you did. Thank you for the heads up. I'll be sure to inspect it every few years.

 

Hola! I'm back again. Thanks all again. Like I said, my code 16 is gone now but now it pops and tries to start, but...

I'm going to finally buy a part. Some may say I told you that, but I wanted to cover the diagnosis first. Bad battery connection fixed and resoldered main relay fixed code 16.

Now I'm still not sure that I have my 6 amps at each inj to open them, and when new inj are $60-120 each didn't want to do shotgun diagnosis by throwing parts at it. Could buy from junkyard for probably 25% of that cost but might be buying stuck inj and I already have those. So, $240-500 was why I wanted to do the best job possible with this, especially when this is a 62hp engine and I'm not sure how long I'll want to keep it, may swap it next year for a vtech. Kinda used to the power my Vtech V6 accord has.

anywho... does anyone have any suggestions as far as good stock type inj or companys that redo them? Saw this company on ebay that sells a set of 4 for 125, seems like a decent price. More than I want to spend on this engine but I don't have too many options. Here is a link, seems like they do a thorough job with them...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91...Q5fAccessories

And now for my dumbest question to date... Is there anything I can do to revive these? I saw a seller on ebay selling filter/o-ring kits for like 30bux, but I don't think it'll take care of anything if they are stuck shut. But maybe a chemical would remove deposits making them stick?

Just want to take the cheapest route, while not wasting money... Thanks

 

Look for a diesel injector place near your area. Take them there and have them serviced. It will be cheaper in the long run.

 

Found a place, they'll clean them for 12.50 each, seems to be a good route! Will drop them off today hopefully and pick them up tomorrow after work! Will update! thanks

 

I have a 90 HF aswell mines a 1.5 8 valve... Ive been wanting to add real mods so it can run a little more.. so far I just have a cold air intake and full exhaust system icluding headers... just wondering if theres any suggestions on what else I could add... (some cheap/effective mod's??) :/

 

I'm back, and good news!

3 injectors were stuck, 1 barely opened. Injector cleaning shop did their magic and now they all operate correctly! It is tough to find a shop that does this, most just want to clean them while on the car, I imagine it is something dumped in the tank.

So for future reference.... If you've stored a vehicle for years, and now injectors won't seem to open that is probably the case. They are seized!

Posting this for future people who may have the same issue as me....
Earlier in my posts I had code 16, injectors, but that code didn't come from the injectors. My injectors all meter at 3.0ohms, which is what the computer wants to see. I was getting my resistance in the Main Relay and the Power clamp for the + battery post putting everything out of spec, so if you have a code 16 and all injectors meter the same, all within spec, you have a bad connection somewhere. Thanks all

 

You could have saved yourself some money by DIY

Added video cause you didn't listen to good advice. :/ and for others who may run into the same problem




[youtube]VFJlTfHyrUk[/youtube]

 

Low impedance/resistance (peak & hold) are from 0.5-6 Ohms. Static, not what is happening when the jets are clogged and the coils are opening. Big difference.