Is there a particular aftermarket spring you can run the OEM B18A/B retainers with? I noticed the supertech springs were 120 bucks a set if you get them independent of the ti retainers, personally id rather have OEM retainers over ti if at all possible, im just wondering if they will seat correctly on the spring or if i should be looking at perhaps crower springs for that.

 

i used brian crower springs with oem retainers. the fit pretty well, i even called up brian and he assured me they would be fine. and they were. i ran that engine for 17,000 miles no issues before i put the stock motor back in to sell the car

 

It will fit but I don't think these companies made and sold Ti rets w/o a purpose.not worth the savings I'll get..I'd go Ti even though I know they wear faster than oem.

 

The best thing to do is email the company and ask them. You won't get beter advise...

 

ti retainers are made for race applications were the car and motor are going to periodically be adjusted...if this is a daily driver oem is fine..

 

I'm still trying to see where you guys are getting the fact that they are wearing faster. Yes, despite the rumblings on the internet, I've found that the only reason they seem to wear faster is because of the higher seat pressures that some of these aftermarket cams are requiring on the valvetrain, and people aren't performing valve lash at regular maintenance intervals .

Maybe its just me... And I'm no master mechanic by any means whatsoever, but I've had the same titanium retainers on 3 cars since 2002 on a regular basis "daily driven" (portflow and Toda retainers), and I've only seen ONCE where the retainer was compromised and it was my own fault for causing it.

I'm not being self-righteous, I'm just very curious as to how this (at least to me) all of a sudden became a problem in the aftermarket world.

 

to my understanding Ti is a softer metal then steel, which makes them less prone to fatigue failure, yet they wear in much quicker. Guys that are cracking OEM retainers running 9000 rpm's I can understand, I dont run over 7k.

 

Titanium softer than steel? I'm trying to see how that is exactly.

This is from Matthew J. Donachie, Jr. (1988), a physicist in Ohio on Titanium and its metalugical properties.

"The two most useful properties of the metal form are corrosion resistance and the highest strength-to-weight ratio of any metal."


This was from the Annual Book of ASTM Standards on Non-ferrous Metals.

"The ASTM International recognizes 31 Grades of titanium metal and alloys, of which Grades 1 through 4 are commercially pure (unalloyed). These four are distinguished by their varying degrees of tensile strength, as a function of oxygen content, with Grade 1 being the most ductile (lowest tensile strength with an oxygen content of 0.18%), and Grade 4 the least (highest tensile strength with an oxygen content of 0.40%).[15] The remaining grades are alloys, each designed for specific purposes, be it ductility, strength, hardness, electrical resistivity, creep resistance, resistance to corrosion from specific media, or a combination thereof"

Which (outside of the possibility that only Grade 1 steel is used for these retainers) still doesn't address how it is softer than steel unless its been formulated in a way outside of the Kroll process of its creation as an alloy, especially when its purpose is high strength and High utility.

Again from Dr. Donachie:

Titanium is 60% more dense than aluminium, but more than twice as strong[6] as the most commonly used 6061-T6 aluminium alloy. Certain titanium alloys (e.g., Beta C) achieve tensile strengths of over 200,000 psi (1,400 MPa)

I guess the only thing that would make me think otherwise, and not just perhaps the issue of human error is the fact that at higher temperatures over 806*F, is from Jelk's Barksdales 1968 book on titanium on which he was able to test the application of the alloy as the Kroll process was being developed. But I'm sure that this process has been changed over the years have addressed to that by now.

So this brings me to the $64,000 question. Is it the Grade level of titanium used in the retainers, the effect of over 806* of heat that the engine may be subjected to (which only makes sense in a Forced Induction environment), or is it user installation of too high of a seat pressure that is used on some companies recommendations with the use of their cams? So far I'm only seeing the latter. Remember, I've had over 10 years with the same set with only one issue, and that was 1 retainer due to my error.

Sorry for the book, but I'm just trying to understand how titanium alloy is softer than steel. Me thinks this is another interweb misdirected causal situation in which too many people installed incorrectly and blame it on the materials.

any useful input? Tony the Tiger? Brian N at Skunk? anyone?

 

Brian Crower actually made Chromoly Steel Retainers
but they aren't listed on their website
the kit is BC0020s <--- with the small "s"

 

lol dude im not a metalurgist, and god knows im not gona argue this one, im talking about this strictly from the standpoint that I dont need them If i can use factory retainers. I will say that what i mean is softer=less brittle, what im also saying is i have no need for super high strength titanium retainers capability of withstanding huge pressures at high rpm, im going with a mild profile cam that will only see OEM rev limits. Only reason im going for slightly beefier springs is because I dont trust the OEM spring pressures for the slightly increased lift.

 

Use rsx-s retainers if your dead set on using a oem retainer.

other then that, ti retainers will last as long as the valvelash is correct, and the things are monitored..

people use RSXS retainers alot though.

 

RSX retainers on b18b springs for a b18b head?

 

yes

 

No Rsx retainers WILL NOT work. B18 heads use a different valve diameter.

OEM retainers worked fine for me, rode the rev limiter plenty of times at 7800.

 

Ha. I'm not arguing, I'm simply responding to your logic that Titanium="softer", therefore "brittle". It' just not showing consistency, and it may be because its surrounded by a misunderstood myth, not to mention that it is exactly the OEM and slightly higher spring pressures (50-60lbs) that makes the Titanium retainers last much longer than people think. That is why my $65K question seems cryptic. It's not you I'm arguing with, it's the information "out there" that seems to assist in forming the logic you're concluding, and I'm simply trying to find evidence to it one way or the other.

I find that people automatically get more defensive when discussions are pressed this way. If you're not sure... its ok to say you're not sure.. there's no ego here. I'm not sure... that's why I'm trying to find out more. ;-)

 

thought they were fine on all stock heads???

 

The non vtec heads use a thicker valve stem and different retainers so they won't fit. I've never measured but I think valve spring diameter is different as well.

 

no no, im trying to say its less brittle by being softer, almost like how cobalt drill bits are very brittle, yet very hard at the same time, by titanium being softer, its less prone to a stress fracture, but more prone to wear.

 

on the supertech springs specifically?

 

Yes the single springs not the dual, I do not feel that the dual springs are necessary for most applications. Just adds stress to the already weak valvetrain system.

The supertech springs fit great in the OEM LS retainers, snap fit. I cannot comment if the dual springs are even compatable with OEM LS retainers or seats

 

would you happen to have a part number for those singles?

 

Spawne, I'm going to be a dick and tell you that was a extremely lazy question but go ahead and answer it this time.

SPR-TS2081/LS

 

Based upon the information I've presented, that still doesn't make sense at all (as though it is a ceramic), based upon that treatment process like the ones used.

 

go SHODAN^^^ and i'm going ls turbo with my rev limit at 7800 as well an will be using stock retainers on single wound valvesprings from crower so i should be fine i'll just bounce on the limiter a bit. single wound tit valvesprings from crower $175.