Got here B18C6 Stock motor(11.1:1 comp ratio) . Its UKDM DC2 ITR.
Its my daily driver, so dont want to build full race runner, want to get most of the motor keeping it as streetable as I can, and keep good enough MPG on soft city driving.
What is the best option on N/A cams?

I have KMS dual valve springs with Chromoly Steel Alloy retainers ready just want to decide with what cams to go...
Dont want to open the motor change pistons or rods, but just cams with springs and retainers.

For springs installation w/o tearing head apart from block got this:


Want your input lads.

 

First, what other supporting mods do you have?

A quality Intake, header and exhaust would be where I mod first before looking into cams. Also, if your not going to put different higher compression pistons in, you have to be careful not to over cam your motor.

To me, the cost vs. benefit I would look elsewhere first and cams would be close to last if I was not doing internals.

 

Yea. when i chose cams i looked to excede any type r set up that was still streetable.

I should have bought a b16b right off the bat. I spent around full engine value Just on my Cylinder head. I had multiple vtec heads around and ended up buying a brand new one and started from scratch. While still driving my car i had built it up and it took me a day and a half to install.

But i read about this spesfic thing for a while(cams). I have omni power full valve train with Buddy club spec3+ cams. and a full port/polish (did plan on header but with EF chassis w/o mods its hard)

I have never been in a type r but i would believe the way that my car pulls, it pulls just as hard as a type R or k20

ask me why i did all this?

Had a bunch of stuff laying around and wanted to do this. use some stuff up. I read alot of diffrent camshafts. i have like 100 pages of honda specs and diffrent engine stats and lined up every single camshaft and read each profile. comparing it next to each honda engine and its specs.This took me a while but after i wanted a Real NA setup, i chose buddy club spec 3+. I am sure i could have gone with a larger camshaft but this WAS my first time at fully dissasembling my head my self and doing most of the work. I had the core shiped to local machine shop for some of the harder machining work and valve setting.

I really am pleased with what i researched for over 2-3 years and put alot of time into.

I do have a stock bottom end which is pretty fresh. I did want a maximum overbore. At this time its too late. I do have other plans for other motors i have laying around with larger stroke and hopefully more power.

I would reccomend if your really into it just research and really get into it. i constantly read whatever i can to absorb this **** up and there is nothing that i can not do. i have proven to my self and many others this.

 

Its ITR so I thought it has pretty good IM, have 70'mm pipe with big air filter, engine grounding, DC sports 4-2-1 header which is ~1.79" per exit then goes to ~2" at the two pipes and connects to test pipe and catback which is 3" all the way to the back.
New OEM leads,OEM ITR sparkplugs, New OEM dizzy cap and rotor... Gearbox is S80 S4C with LSD and 4.79FD Pulling hard enough, but want more out of it... I know JDM ITRs have 11.6:1 comp ratio and still play alot just with the cams

 

I know man, its been long time I understood there's nothing I cant do myself just a matter of time to find and absorb required info

 

Honestly man, here's what I would do, and is what I plan on doing, considering I have an 11.7:1 Poor Man's Type R. I'm happy with my compression ratio, and I already have pistons sturdy enough for what I'm going to throw at them N/A (P30), so I'm only touching the head as of now. I plan on daily driving it, and would like more oomph. I'd run least Skunk2 Pro 1's. They have the same VTEC lobes as the Stage 2's, but they also have larger primaries to make more power all of the time. They require a minimum compression of 11.1:1 I believe, however, there are numerous dyno tests of cars with that compression running the Pro 2's, which of course make more power than Pro 1's. The minimum requirement for the Pro 2's is 11.6:1 I believe, however, it is proven cars with less compression still out perform the Pro 1's all the way around. Of cours you'd run the proper vavle train, which SHOULD be Skunk2 Pro dual valve springs and retainers. Stock valves in this application are more than enough, and ITR valves are actually stronger than most aftermarket valves, and they perform a few CFM's better. But while you're at it, why not dish out the extra bit of cash to port and polish your head for the best results, and actually boast about a built head? Just my opinion... Hope I helped.

 

consider getting a better header first. you're choking a bit with a DC header with 2" collector.

and if i recall, the JDM ITR motors have 11.1:1 compression.

i'm running Toda B's in my '98 spec motor. i might go down in size to Spoon cams instead as i might have over-cammed my motor...if not, to save my Toda belts that are getting shredded/stretched too fast...

i've seen nothing but great results from the Skunk2 Pro series cams though, along with the Buddy Club 3's.

 

As mentioned, better bolts ons are going to yeild you better results.

Even an OEM 98+ JDM Header will give you better results than your DC sports header and they can be had for $250 USD. Spend a little more and get a used Toda header for 5-600.

Is the TB 70mm? What do you mean by big pipe with big air filter? Stock with just a different filter?

And a 3" catback is no good man. 2.5 is good for 250 WHP which is hard to do anyway NA.

I would first figure out a budget, then figure out what your goals are (WHP and what you plan on doing with the car, street, RR, AutoX) and go from there.

 

Just measured up my exhaust its actually ~2.60". I didnt chose DC header, I got car already with it, I suppose someone was looking some low end torque with that lil exit header, I would gladly replace it with 98+ 4-1 ITR header anyday, hunting for one now...

Trotle Body is stock ITR size, and its the pipe size thats what it is70mm...
I've heard 70mm trottle bodies dont make that much of a difference, am I wrong?

by the way, got blue hondata heatshield intake manifold gasket... waiting for AEM TRU Time cam gears this week too...
What I would really love to do is to make my car #1 as streetable and daily drivable as possible maintaining reasonable MPG, and have most comming out of it times I want enjoy its most potential...
#2 I dont want to take head off or touch engines internals like pistons, crank, rods etc etc...
#3 I could do larger throttle body, proper header and proper induction...
#4 looking for best bang for buck if thats possible... so 11.1:1 is what I'm having and want to squeze most of it with least loss in a wallet after build as for d.d.

cheers

 

a 3 inch exhaust wouldnt hurt...there are many 1.8l setup running it and they have seen gains...the rule is anything after the collector is a restriction so 3 inch wont hurt...also endyn bumb sticks are design are around jun3s...skunk2 tuner 2 and theres a couple other cams that wil get you more power and are designed around stock valve relieves..buddy clubs 3s are just a lil bigger than itr cams...but you wont have to change valvetrain...i head about using buddy club 4 intake cam and itr exhaust to gain top end and keep the excellent midrange of itr cams...

 

Ok where could I get one of buddy club 4 intake cam? sounds interesting

 

your best bet is to buy the set...or contact a buddyclub dealer...

 

but spec 4 is for extreme racing aplications only, when Im loking to keep good city or highway mpg driving soft this isnt going to work for me too well... Skunk pro1's?

 

Three things.

Don't believe the false information people just re-gurgitate about 3 inch exhaust systems. Tests with a 3 inch system were done on a completely stock b16a and it made significant gains over stock. There is nothing wrong with a 3 inch system. People need to put disclaimers when they just tell others what they have been told.

Skunk2 pro 1's have also been tried and have proven to make power many times over. They are a great camshaft. When degreed in properly and run on a half way decent tune, they make good power. Also, rarely do you hear about a skunk2 camshaft snapping like a crower, buddy club, blox, ect. Granted excessive installation and removal of any camshaft will put stress on it due to continually being torqued down over and over. That has been deemed the culprate in several broken camshaft cases. Skunk2's are pricey, but they are also quality(unlike some of skunk2's products). I.E, first gen throttle bodies(screws were known to back out of the butterfly and get sucked into the engine). Pro series cam gears were also known to break. I don't know wether they corrected that or not. I do know the throttle bodies have been ridded of that problem though. Keep an eye out if you are looking at a used one.

That tool you bought for installing valve springs may not work all that well. Depending on the stiffness of the spring you are trying to install, the bolt/allthread may have a tendency to jump out of the concaved area in the piece that sits on the retainer and actually does the compressing. I built something similar in about an hour out of home chepo plumbing pipe and flat iron. As opposed to a concaved area, I bolted the rod to the compression piece so it would not slip off. Worked like a charm.(I know, its like reading war and peace. Just wanted to share my experience with that device.)

You may want to also post in the all motor forum in addition to the ITR forum, or search if you haven't already and see if you can come up with any thing useful. I think I was reading a similar post not to long ago in the all motor forum. Good Luck.

 

what about AEM Tru-Time 5point cam gears?

I know exactly what you mean man, what you pay is what you get...

I've these spec KMS goods:
Racing Spring Features:

• High-strength chrome silicon Dual Springs
• 85 psi seat pressure
• Reliable performance to 11,000 rpm

that tool I have bought from them:
http://www.euroexportinc.com/store/t...ompressor.html

I've heard only good reviews about them so I hope it will take abuse from installing my new springs... I will have to grease tool threads with anti-seize agent before the operation just to be on the safe size...

 

no you really didn't

there have been a few threads in the all motor forum about this. jun3's make the most power but the factory itr cams usually have the best midrange. 200whp is do-able with a bad *** header and jun3's in an otherwise stock 11:1 itr

actually let me clarify, jun3's made the most of the cams that were in the test i remember. what rockets do or other really super high lift snappy lobed cams do i'm not sure.

at any rate a stock 11:1 itr will put down about 170whp

you can get that to 180whp with a better header and tune

200whp will happen if you up the redline and spin the motor to 9200 or so and install something like the jun3 and supporting VT

now for my bitch about aftermarket cams

they break

more than they should

i've already snapped a set of crowers and didn't even run that motor too hard

high lift long duration cams are also hard on guides, seats and LMA's

using chromoly retainers is great for strength but costs you a couple hundred rpm of redline.

this actually is why turbos find their way on people who really are seeking the hp thrill

figure, jun3 cams and VT is $1400

obd1 ecu $100
hondata s100 $195
tune $300
nice replica header $450

total to get to 200whp = $2445

not counting labor

$2500 will get a nice t3 turbo setup with a tubular manifold, that's 280-300whp on the otherwise stock itr and a very fast spool time.

reliability...ehh i'd bet on the T3 car as long as you can control the heat

9000+ rpm and aftermarket cams get spooky with mileage

does the all motor setup have a use or shine anywhere? yes; autocross

street, drag and the road course the T3 car would put it down

if you did a t3 car and were going to road race it a 2" thick ron davis half radiator and a big *** oil cooler with an aftermarket pan would be smart. any air ducting would also help

 

I would be using OBD1 P72 socketed ECU with ectune mapping, and seriously not going to spend more than 700bucks on cams, but skunk2 seem to be best reliability cams out there for the price... I have already got the springs with chromoly retainers so all I'm after is JDM ITR 4-1 header which I ill get in short time here locally, and cams...
AEM-TRU Time cam gears arrived today(80$)
KMS Silicone Dual Springs with Chromoly Retainers (280$)
P72 ECU with harnes (100$)
Moates Ostrich 2.0 (will be ~200$)
Wideband O2 with gauge (will be ~200$)
Road tuning myself, (or pro-dyno tuning ill be ~200-300$)
Cams... ?

would love something in ~200whp with good torque curve

 

Yeah man, like I said earlier, Pro 1's and Pro 2's are your best bet... Even "overcamming" by putting in the Pro 2's, you will see 5-10whp/ft/lbs all over for the same price range. Seriously out of the 10 suggestions or so you got, half of them were Skunk2's. You will be dissappointed with the Tuner series, and like I said earlier, Pro 1's have larger primaries than the Stage 2's, so you will make more power with even Pro 1's...

 

AEM

Skunk2 rates their pro-series springs at 11,000rpm so you will probably be ok running pro 1's or pro2's on the kms springs you have. I wouldnt worry about that.

Good Luck

 

Sounds like BC spec 3+ 's are what you are looking for. They are a good mid-range cam, and have the same streetability as OEM R cams. Stock VT can handle the job but it wouldnt hurt to throw new springs and retainers in.

While you are at it, I would reccomend a BC/spoon/mugen headgasket, ARP head studs, and a new timing belt

Hope this all helps

 

he's not getting 200whp out of that

to get 200whp he has to use jun3 or pro1's

 

I've seen with my own eyes DC2's GSR's and ITR's with CTR cams/Stage 1 cams on stock bottom end before with very detailed good tune and breathing mods braking 200whp border so all depends who works on the car after IMO

 

A whole lot of mis-info in here...

3 in exhaust and hardly mod'd? Seriously? Your hurting what little torque you have.

Skunk 2 pro 1's in a hardly mod'd motor? I have them in my fully built ITR. Upgraded valve train, stage 2 P&P, SMSP header, Mugen intake, almost no exhaust (race exhaust) injectors, tuning... Edlebrock Performer X IM, 65mm TB... and I'm at 218 WHP tuned at sea level with S300.

As mentioned, what is your budget and goals?

Get a different header, better intake, proper exhaust. THEN look into cams. And certainly not stage 4's or Pro series skunks unless you upgrade valve train and even then I would suggest you up the CR and do your IM/TB to maximize.

 

^Dave knows his sheeet..

Ohh it is more than possible to acheive 200whp with a good quality I/H/E with a tune on a stock motor (dyno jet of course) let alone with spec 3's and slightly higher comp. ratio. Jun3's and pro1's are overkill and the OP wants good mid-range.

 

it's just more that buddy club 3s are a waste of money if you already have itr cams. pro1s and jun 3s both work fine at 11:1 but do operate better closer to 12:1

dave's engine is a good example of what i'm talking about. at sea level, probably on a cool day a totally worked 1.8L makes 218whp

itr cams are a great midrange cam if you autocross a lot. pro1s or jun3s will win the dyno numbers and top end.

personally i think all motor builds are a waste of money unless you're building one for a specific race class

boost is such a better deal for a street/strip car

no one has made 200whp on an stock internal itr

the performer x is a slightly better intake

rmf replica would be a better header

still isn't going to push past 180whp or maybe 185 if you run the engine cool with a great tune

i remember seeing a back to back of a stock jdm itr with a blox c cam swap

engine gained just over 20whp with the C's