when do you need to step up to a motec....at what power level...im trying to make 1000whp..run low 9s maybe someday touch 8s....im planning on getting aem series 2 and a custom harness from rywire...but im thinking between aem and harness price is gonna be around 3k...and then what else do i need...also planning on running 4 egts for fine tuning...so thats an extra 300 for the aem box to run multiple egts...how much are you guys spending on electronics on your race cars...aem vs motec seem to be the most popular...

 

It isnt so much a power level as it is a preference. All kinds of power levels have been made with all kinds of EMS'. But the real question is #1 how deep are you pockets? #2 Do you want the Playstation 3 (Motec) or the Atari from 1980 (AEM)? YYou gotta pay to play. In racing its a harsh fact but a real one, spend everything and expect nothing back.

 

I wouldnt compare a series2 box to an atari lol some of the fastest cars run aem some also run motec. like stated above at this point its preference... its also going to be almost impossible to get an unbiased opinion being that the fellow above plays a ps3 not an atari lol.... motec is capable of more but it comes with a higher price tag. I personally have the same goals and asperations such as a fast e.t and 1000+hp and i am switching to a series2 box if that means anything to you... i have seen a few threads revolving around this subject i suggest you start a pole.

 

AEM s2 im sorry to tell you buddy is far from ATARI lol..but 2 each his own i also dont think its next to MOTEC but its in the top 3 of best EMS in my opinion. like the guy up above said it comes to down to how in depth you wanna get with ur tunning an not 2 mention how deep are your pockets..

 

You should be banned from putting those two in the same thread title. lol

 

I'm not one to toot anyone's horn but just in case you didn't know Miller runs AEM V2..

 

Miller, Cunha, Felix, Dynamic Performance,

Adriano

 

this has not been confirmed when miller comes on here and says so that will seal it. Now rumors say that he does beta testing for them but rumors also say that he is on motec and aem is just a ghost box. we are not on his team so only they know.

 

People have been low 9's high 8's on the stock ecu (Hondata, Neptune), AEM EMS, MoTeC, etc. So in the end your tuner and yourself will have to decide which route you want to take.

On a side note and without trying to be an AEM cheerleader. There's some real exciting features in the coming months for AEM V2. Some of which have been implemented and are in beta testing stages.

 

And thats my tuner

 

There are a lot of things to consider when deciding on an ecu.

An ecu's primary job is to run the engine properly. Most ecu's on the market are capable of that. There are definitely advantages to the way you can do things in some ecus over others, but at the end of the day, most will do a decent job at running an engine. The main difference on this end being the consistency and reliability in the hardware and that's a real concern. Failing injector drivers and such really do happen on some ecus and it can cause engine damage when it does.

Next is all the aux functions you want your ecu to do. Anti lag, boost control, traction control, shift cut, closed loop lambda control, knock control, cam control, fan control, flexible aux outputs, etc. This is where you'll really find a big difference between many ecus. How much flexibility do they give you and how well do the functions actually work for your application?

Then there's expandability. Do you want your ecu to be your main logger or do you need a seperate logger because the ecu doesn't have many channels or good datalogging? Something else to keep in mind when comparing costs.

Datalogging in my opinion is one of the most important features. At the end of the day, that's what you're going to study to figure out how to make your car go faster. How good is the logging software? There is a HUGE variance in capabilities and such in the logging software.

So yeah, there's a lot to consider when comparing engine management systems. I'd be happy to answer any Motec questions.

 

Its been a few years since I looked at Motec Software, but last time I saw it the visual aspect of the software definately made AEM look like a playstation and Motec look like an Atari.... is Motec still on DOS based software and looks like an early 90's computer program? Obviously that has nothing to do with the capabilities of the EMS... just saying if I spent 5k on an ECU I wouldnt want a flashback to 6th grade computer class.

 

The Motec M4 and M48 were DOS, that's how old the ecu was and it's been discontinued. The new V3 Motec software blows everything out of the water as far as i'm concerned. Nobody can touch the flexibility of everything in V3 and yes, it's Windows based. lol

All of Motec's software is available for download for free. Check it out. If you have a few minutes, download i2, the logging interpreter program and watch the demo, cool stuff.

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload...exe?docid=3654

http://www.motec.com.au/filedownload...exe?docid=2410

http://www.motec.com.au/software/latestreleases/

 

only complains ive had with it is no "undo" and basic window keyboard functions arnt there. other than that its great.

great post tony, ive had electromotive, aem, hondata, etc in my car. none of them could do EVERYTHING i wanted. i was about to purchase a racepak at one point as none of the systems i had previously loggged very well, or enough channels, etc.....but it seemed like a retarded move to 1) have a logger that was more expensive than my ecu and 2) with a nice logger like a racepak you can view the data after a pass and make changes, but you can not use the info you are logging to make live changes. with a motec you get an amazing logger than can acually DO whatever you want, real time, with the information its recieving. the initial investment is a little bit painful, but once you put it past you its the best money you will spend.

i bought a motec PLM lambda meter from tony. it was expensive but i had used every other wideband under the sun and was not happy with any of them (this is for dyno/shop use). the first car i used the new meter on, i had a smile on my face for the rest of the day. i like the lambda meter so much that i bought a second one as a back up, to me- its THAT much better.

the price tags a little bit, but to me peice of mind knowing you have something of really good quality is worth some extra money.

looking through a motec catalog is like walking onto a snap on truck. you see some really nice stuff. the price of some of it makes you want to throw up on yourself, and other stuff you actually find yourself saying "really? thats it?"

another cool part about the motec stuff is that you will constantly be learning new things. id be willing to bet tony still learns new things in the software on a pretty regular basis? i havnt really gotten to take advantage of mine at all. my integra had no wheel speed sensors front or rear, no accelerometers, nothing. it wasnt doing anything i couldnt do with an s300 other than the logging really. i wasnt even using it for boost control at the time.

 

But does it really? The team members have mentioned still using the Motec CDI-8.... which is not compatible with an AEM EMS...

 

In regards to Motec: I agree about the undo function, I wish it had one. Making adjustments using maths channels still takes me a second because this is the only Motec car that I'm tuning frequently. I probably tune 20 cars with different management between each time I open the software to make changes to mine so I have to re-think about keystrokes every time I go to tune my car since it's different than the other engine management systems that I use more often.

Reliable hardware is a big one for me. I want to feel confident that I won't have hardware failures and that when I ask the ecu to do something, it will work as advertised. Motec does that.

On the "other ecu" I've seen numerous hardware problems and also software glitches. Once I was on the dyno, the key was on and engine was off while I made changes. Little did I know that the injectors were batch firing while the engine wasn't running! When I went to start it again the engine was locked up and I smelled fuel. It had literally filled the entire intake manifold, intercooler tubing and raw fuel was coming out of the compressor housing! That was my worst experience with the "other ecu."

I LOVE in Motec that you can build a table based on any two parameters for nearly any function! For example, you can choose to set target boost or RPM Limit by vehicle speed AND gear. Or your anti-lag and launch control can use a 3d table based on any engine parameter you want such as engine speed (RPM) and manifold pressure for consistent launches no matter how long you sit on the limiter waiting for your opponent to stage.

My favorite Motec feature is the ignition cut and the way the rev limiter is applied. It's not a full ignition or fuel cut unless you want it to be. In many other engine management systems you'll get a full cut until you drop below a specified rpm and then full re-engagement of the engine and then full cut again and so on. With Motec it cuts only a percentage of the total ignition cycles and you can log Ignition cut % which is a nice tool for gauging traction at the track. Many other engine management systems RPM limit parameter is logged as "on" or "off".

 

Here is a TOTALLY UNRELATED STORY, not related in ANY way to what we're talking about here. Not related at all. Not even a little bit :

A few years ago I was at an event here in the NW and was in the pits checking out an AEM sponsored 350z. It said "AEM Performance Electronics" up the side of the entire car and when I peered inside the cabin it was NOT using and AEM ECU. But like I said; TOTALLY UNRELATED STORY

Pay close attention to what's really going on everyone, don't just accept the BS that is fed to you.

 

On the point of debate about what Miller runs I do notice something that kinda caught my attention and made me curious. The video footage of inside his car from some recent races... there is a towel over all the electronics on the pass floorboard, covering what he is running? So is he testing something AEM doesnt want to advertise, not running an AEM at all, or just doing it to stir people up. Just an observation.

Edit: Forgot about the above mentioned Motec CDI-8 which also maybe something to consider with this question of what he rus.

 

ive lost count of how many cars ive seen with "insert clutch company here" logo's all over the car.....watch them break a trans and pull it at the track, and they all have a tilton clutch in them...which is not the company thats on the side of the car lol this isnt just honda's either haha

 

You sure about that?

 

Aem is the best bang for the money right now .
There is better out there but get ready to spend lots of money .
Besides AEM will do everything u need its proven .

 

after all the headaches. went to motec and happy with it.

i just dont see any reason to switch a gold box to a black one, id rather drive the bentley then the benz.

 

out of curiosity what does one of the high end ecu setups (gold boxes)harness,sensors,etc like tony ,miller,etc run cost? ive heard some crazy pricing like upwards of $20,000 any truth to this ?

 

The M400 is $3500 and the M800 is $5k. The M800 and M400 have the same capabilities other than the ability to do staged injectors on a 4 cylinder with the M800. Not a big deal at all, my injectors aren't even staged.

Sensors and harnesses need to be considered seperately because you will need them regardless of system assuming you want to do/log all this stuff.

Either way, a full harness from us for an M800 (setup for all sensors) is right under $3k.

 

you can get the boxes they run for 5-10K, its all the other boxes u can expand it too that will add up to more than 20K, it all what u need/want the ecu to do...