ok so im still pretty new to racing. I did my first HPDE this past weekend andddddd the *** end of my car likes to float under braking not in a straight line essentially.

scenario

coming into turn 14 from the back straight at 100+ slight application to the brakes sends the *** end swinging.

i know im supposed to brake in a straight line but i let my friend take the wheel for a session and show me a different line in a few spots and this happened.

set up:
gsr brakes
hawk hps pads
koni yellows
ground control coils
soft springs
spoon front/rear strut tower bars
cpillar bar
skunk lca's
asr rear subframe
stock sway?


or did this happen mearly because of not braking in a straight line?

thanks in advance

 

Braking while entering a corner or abrupt throttle lift can cause the rear to rotate. It could be a multitude of things, but if this is your first event id imagine one of the latter.

Were there no instructors?

 

Whoaaa whoooaa whoooaaa what kind of HPDE lets you get going that fast, especially if it was your first???
I know with NASA there is a lot of lead follow.. Alot!
Please tell us who is letting you run that fast on your first track day.

Braking going into the turn?
You should of been done braking before you turned unless you were trailbraking?
Trailbraking is a bit too advanced for your skillset...
When you brake going into the the actual turn you cause the car to go out of balance.
Hence why you did the wiggle wiggle. This can be a bit scarry for some one new.
If this was your first HPDE there should of been an instructor with you!
Also are you running a 40/40 prop valve with the gsr brakes?
What chassis are using?

 

whoa, whoa, easy, easy!!

i was with an instructor alllll weekend. he solo'd me out for the last session of the day for whatever reason

a very good friend of mine is an instructor rode with me in the last session where i was solo'd to give me pointers and so forth.

after doing so he offered up to take my car on track with him driving and show me some things differently.

he races and instructs so i lack no confidence in him whats so ever. was not me driving in this scenario.. he was.

either way i was WOT through out the session.. not 10/10ths or anything but i didnt know a speed was limited in hpde..

im driving hpde1 at the moment but i have some autox behind me also.

trail braking would be my assumption as to what he was doing..

yes on the 40/40 valve, EK hatch chassis.

i know lift of throttle with send the car squirly in a turn and hard braking will do the same



sorry for the mis communication! hope that clears it up. i kept to my straight line braking..
but my friend/instructor used "trailbraking"? which caused the car to get like it did.. he said it didnt feel right or maybe he's so used to his damn subaru! haha

 

Glad you cleared that up.
Last year I did witness a beginer out on track with an instructor after a day was over and low an behold this poor young kid, and his once beautiful Civic SI got in over his head.
The car went off track, probably going too fast for his skill level, and he jerked the car back on track and it rolled several times.

They both walked away from the accident.. but they had to use the jaws of life to get them both out!
Moral of the story. As much as you trust your friend.. If you arent comfortable and they push you, (which i hope they werent) you need to speak up.
Better to back down than to ball up your car, and have to get a ride home.
Or worse a hospital stay.

Is his subaru AWD???

 

I was there Paul newbies like me need to concentrate on proper lines and braking the speed will come naturally as your skills improve you will learn how to carry momentum thru the turns especially with FWD. What happened that day with the brand new civic si should have never happen especially in HPDE 1 remember we are there to learn not race. Good luck and maybe get you car corner balance and get some professional help to set you car up properly.

Whoa whoaaa what are guy doing riding horses lol.

 

What kind of car is this?

 

what kind of rear brakes do you have?

sometimes a less aggressive rear pad is prefered...most people i track with run a step below their front stuff, or just stocker-semi-metallics.

sounds like the dude just didnt know your car...did you have any problem with it?

 

i was going to say the same thing about the pads.
also too even though your rates are "soft" if you are running a rear bias setup you/he could also feel that.
what are your alignment specs?

 

He definitely wasnt pushy i wouldnt have let him go out if i didnt trust him.. but

i had no issue with the car.

its a 97 ek hatch with gsr brake conversion..

i just wanted to throw this out there to see if it was "normal" felt fine to me for the most part.

im running hawk hps plus front and rear

my piece

instructors car

 

Alright I think this is what was missed in the first post.

So you werent having a problem with the rear stepping out?

 

there are a few questions not being answered.

but i assume that is the case. and if so i wouldnt worry about it. it is your car. you dont "tune" your car for other people. if you feel comfortable driving it then drive it as is.

 

Rear trailing arm bushings or alignment could be causing this. I run essentially stock alignment specs and the car will wander a little, straight line under hard braking.
Others who have drivin the car don't like it but it's really all about what your comfortable with.

 

Some very good suggestions have been brought up. I would also say start from the most basic and simple things first:
- Check your alignment
- Check trailing arm bushing for any binding

Also from my experience, Impreza's plows like a pig and drivers usually adjust their driving (i.e. long heavy trail braking) to swing the tail out. In other words, your car may have been perfectly fine, but just not perfectly suit his driving style.

 

first of all the rear end did not "FLOAT" and second of all what are ur suspension settings? and u dont have a sway bar? ek never came with one.. and u wrote stock with a ? next to it.. are u clueless? with all this said. u stepped on the brakes late in the corner.. ur rear end lifted and you could not handle the over steer. .. unless your suspension settings are totally off.. just keep driving and try spinning out a few times. it will help u learn. good luck

 

so first it floats? then it feels fine too you.. so can you tell us where you need help?

 

RED_90, there were two people driving the car. When the owner (poster) drove it, it felt fine to him. When the instructor drove it, the tail stepped out in braking zones. I didn't notice the swaybar comment, but he may not have much mechanical knowledge. No reason to criticize him for that.

Trailing arm bushings are always worth a check (as they all go bad over time), as is alignment. However, based on the info provided now, I'd put my bet on his driving style.

For the TA bushings (which are the big round bushings pressed into the side/end of the rear trailing arms), you want to check for cracks in the rubber. What happens is that the rubber cracks around the center portion, causing it to tear away. At that point, the bushing is doing nothing from a functional standpoint. This will show itself as snap-oversteer under hard braking.

 

Alignment specs are stock

reason for the thread is just to see if this was out of the ordinary, yes somebody else drove it so it wasnt normal to him but felt fine to me.

STINKY_ thanks for clearing that last part up.. i'll check the TA bushings when i get a chance.

i didnt know the EK did NOT come with an oem sway so to answer the question then i do not have one.

 

Check the bushings asap. This one appeared to just be cracked but as soon as I unbolted the bushing from the chassis it just fell out.



They are a cheap part and will make the car feel much better.

 

Those bushings cracking is actually a special feature of civics. Shoulda been in the brochure.

 

^^^^This!!!!! My wife and I both daily drive WRX's and race EG Civics. Very different animals. The subies push like a woman in labor.

 

thank you sir!

 

i need to replace my RTA bushings..they started getting "cracked' about halfway through the year.

yeah, the car kinda steps out once and a while...haha

 

,

IF you have ground controls and konis.. then your suspension settings are not going to be stock... you dont claim to have a camber kit. so i recommended you do all the things stated above about your bushings and get your suspension settings checked at an alignment. and maybe get a camber kit. if the car felt fine to you then i personally wouldn't care what someone else thinks about it.. as long as your lap times keep improving.

 

i said my alignment settings were close to stock.. not my suspension.

k sport f/r camber kits.