a few days ago i was driving my 91lx 5 speed home. cruising along at maybe 40 mph or so about 6-7 miles from work when it just quits with absolutely no warning. don't recall if i had any strange lights or if the tach was still registering.

i coasted off to the side of the road, popped the hood, wiggled every connector in sight and attempted to restart. nothing at first. after repeating the connector wiggling thing a few times and attempting to restart it, it finally fired and ran for a few seconds, then stalled. it did this a few more times. eventually, it did start, making a brief odd noise, best described as combustion detonation. i continued home, another 5-6 miles with no issues.

we had had a number of days of steady rain and i was thinking it could be related, but, this morning after a few days a very dry nice weather, i drove it a short distance into town, maybe 2 miles and back home. i sputtered on me at the stop sign down the street, then stalled completely as i rolled up to my driveway.

i attempted to restart it. nothing at first. then it ran momentarily a few times. finally it started with that same odd pinging noise which seemed to last a bit longer this time, no more than two seconds though. it runs now but i have a yellow check engine light.

i am thinking maybe a fuel pump cutting in and out, but, i would think i would get a little more warning with it sputtering more rather than just cutting out completely.

the fuel pump relay was replaced about two years ago.

other than this problem, it runs beautifully other than an idle that oscillates from 1-2K during warm up. after it is fully warm, the idle settles down.

 

been about an hour or two. started up fine. idle normal, CE light gone.

??????

 

Possible ignition switch or igniter problem. See the following links to see which symptoms more closely matches what you are experiencing. Also, try to jump the service connector to see if there are any trouble codes; if not, next time the CEL comes on, check for the code. The link also has info. on getting the trouble codes for your car.

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignit....html#symptoms

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html

 

I would check all wiring on the vehicle. There connections that control the idling control and i would check that as well.

 

i did the ignition switch cleaningand thought i had the problem fixed. drove it a few miles a few days in a row with no problems.

then i got confident and drove to the mall 10 miles away.

got to the mall fine. then it died in the parking lot as i was leaving.

if i let it sit 5 minutes it starts, runs a few seconds,then stalls again.

i then let it sit 20 minutes and it started. it made it about 3-4 miles and stalled again.

i then had the same symptoms of starting after 5 minutes, running a few seconds, then stalling.

i have a few things to add now.

i think the problem is ignition rather than fuel because when it cuts out, the tach goes dead. also, after it stalls if i turn the ignition off, then turn it back to the run position, sometimes it will turn over momentarily without engaging the starter!!! it seems to me that what is happening is the engine firing unburned fuel at this time.

the car has been sitting there on the side of the road for a few hours. i went back and of course, it starts fine now that it has cooled off. i don't trust it though and amhaving it towed home.

 

main relay or ecu grounds

 

the main relay controls the ign. i had this same problem until the car died completely. it was working on it at the shop, swap in a dist i had laying around that was good. no fixe. swapped the main relay with on of a eg/dc and it fired right up.

i would say take it out and repair the solder inside the relay. theres plenty of diy around the web on how to do this.

 

i was thinking about a ground problem as i had anengine ground problem on an old supra that behaved like this.

where is the ecu ground?

where is the main relay? a few years ago i had a problem that was the relay that controls the fuel pump. this relay was replaced with a new one. it was done by a local garage.

 

yea thats the one. the aftermarket ones suck they burn out. the main thing to listen for is the relay to click when the check engine light turns off before you crank your car(from second ign position)


the ecu ground is on the thermo housing

 

thanks for the responses.

i figured the relay was not the problem as it is relatively new, but, with this info, i am now quite certain that it is the problem.

maybe i'll get a little more life outta the old girl after all, although the old pickup truck shopping i've been doing the last few days has got me wanting one more and more. but as long as we have the wife's caravan, i can't really justify buying a pickup.

so, my next question is do i resolder the inferior after market relay's cold solder joints or do i go to the boneyard and pull an OEM one from a junk car?

if i do the later, is the OEM unit easily identifiable? is this unit found in multiple years/models? i suspect most 4 cylinder accords and civics of this vintage would use the same relay.

 

I have the relay out. the solder joint don't appear to be cold. some of them are a bit blob jobbish though.

the relay is marked MITSUBA RELAY ***'Y. MAIN RZ-0088 12V JAPAN.

Is this OEM or aftermarket?

 

i resoldered all the connections. on a few i removed the old solder but was having a problem with getting the solder to flow onto the wick, so what i ended up doing was adding new flux to the pads, reheating and flowing the existing solder.

did this to all the pads. they look to be good joints. to be honest, they looked fine before i started.

anyhoo, i reinstall it, fire it up, let it idle for about 20 minutes in the driveway hoping that if it would fail again, it would do so right there.

it didn't. i then got in and drove down to the local liquor store for a 6 pack of thomas hooker octoberfest. good stuff, btw.

was in there maybe 5 minutes, come out and guess what? starts for a moment and stalls.

crap.

i wait another five minutes. at least i have something to drink! polished one 1 octoberfest and fired it up. drove it around the parking lot for a minute or two and decided to make a break for home.

didn't even get out of the parking lot. actually kinda got stuck at the exit.

sat another 10 minutes. it would start, run a few seconds, die.

after a few more minutes, i got it started long enough to back it up into a parking place.

shut it down and had a nice little 20 minute walk home. left the dang beer in the car. wish i had brought it with me!

in a few hours i will have the wife drive me down and i will drive it home. i am confident it will make it after it has cooled off.

each time it has failed, it has been fully warmed up. it does not fail within 10-15 minutes of start up which is plenty of time to drive it the mile plus home.

i still susoect the PGM relay, but, i think it might be a bad contact inside.

any advice here would be appreciated.

about ready to go to CL and start looking at pickups again!

 

the relay does click on and then clicks off when the CE light goes out. i am pertty certain i hear the fuel pump run as well

Not sure I can tell which this is, i do see a wire clip on it, but, not a ground wire. will look again.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viIZ8k60awY

 

So I'll ask the question....when it will not start or dies...what is missing? When it does this are you getting spark? Really sounds like the ICM....warm or heat soaked and will not start.

EDIT: What did the CEL codes tell you, has it come on again?

 

none of the pads had cold joints as in that video.

does this relay have anything to do with ignition?

the reason i ask is when the engine cuts out, the tach dies immediately.

the tach, i assume gets it's signal from the ignition and if the pgm relay has nothing to do with ignition, i think the problem may lie elsewhere, perhaps the ecm. i will check it over and check it's ground connection tomorrow.

 

Redbull posted some links in his post #3 above, ones I find very useful. Have you gone through that testing.

 

yes i have had a car completely kill the spark on a car when the relay went out.

 

i did look those over and i did disassemble, inspect and clean all switch contacts. They appear to be good. I also did the test of leaving the key in the start position to see if the ignition stayed on. It did not.

I am currently trying to find the ECM ground. I have been told by a few different posters that it is located on the t-stat housing. All I see there is the coolant temp sending unit. I have reseated that a number of times.

Is there any other place that ground might be? Maybe it was worked on in the past and connected somewhere else.

 

Inside the distributor there is a 4 or 5 prong chip that when they go bad they give you the same problems your haveing, when it gets hot it expands and loses connection when it cools it makes connection, I had that prob bought a new one from autozone for 40 bucks (with a lifetime warrnity) put it in and no prob with that anymore

 

91lx- there are two links. Yes one is for the switch....I'm asking about the other which talks about the ignition system, dist-coil ect. Really sounds like the ICM inside (I think on that gen) the dist.

 

that's what I meant, I drew a blank when it came to the name of it earlier lol

 

I have what I believe to be the ICM sitting on the desk here in front of me. It is labeled REGITAR USA
HD003 HTW012684

I gather there are two types. Lot's of the other type on ebay. Not too many of these and they are more expensive.

Does anyone know if this is the better type? Are they more or less prone to failure? The entire distributor was replaced a few years ago with a reman unit and i suspect it has the cheaper ones.

Any recommendations on a good source for them would be appreciated.

 

did a little more searching on feebay and found some that look like they'll work for a very reasonable price.

the shape of it is almost identical. if you hold it so that the hump in it is at the top, between the mounting screws, the hump on mine appears slightly longer. could just be the camera angle though. it ain't much.

am i correct in assuming there are basically just 2 types, a 2 hole and 3 hole? and are all 2 holes interchangeable?

 

The ecu ground is at at the bottom of the thermostat housing, kinda below it.