THSCC is going to Roebling this weekend for a HPDE and Time Trial. I know a bunch of folks from this board are going.

I don't have much experience on this track. Anyone want to talk their way around this track? Good visual markers, turn-in points, lift/brake/gas points, etc?

Also interested in lap times. Here are the IT records from http://www.improvedtouring.com/results/IT_Records.htm:

Roebling Road
ITA Blake Pridgeon RX3 FLA 01:20.3 3/14/99
ITB Eric Foss Volvo 142 CCR 01:25.523 10/27/96
ITC Les Chaney Honda Civic CCR 1:27.188 10/27/96
ITD Kathy Rabatie Mazda FLA 01:36.4 9/26/99
ITS Rob May Mazda RX7 CFR 01:22.0 9/26/99
IT7 Edward Smith,Jr. RX7 CFR 01:25.910 9/26/99

 

Notice that all the track records were years earlier. The track is a bit more worn and will be A LOT slower than these numbers.

Instead of a track walk I'll bring you a tape.

I will tell you that turn 3 is faster than it appears. The secret is to get the left side tires over the half track "seam" early. Therer used to be much more road crown there than there is now but there still is some.

Also, I have found that the sweeping turn approach to turn 2 and 5 (perhaps called 6 now) work the best. i've tried both and like no name at VIR the sweeping line where you do not really apex these turns is fastest. If you utilize (!!) this approach you will find you haveto turn much less atthe turn in point than if you do the classic apex which brings you to the turn in point in a straight line (great for braking) and calls for a much larger turn of the wheel for the turn.

Ron

 

Anybody else see anything fishy about that ITA record? I have been trying to get an explanation for that for about 3 years now, to no avail..... my best laptime there is a 1:23.7, which was set last fall. We are going to have nice weather this weekend, so I would say anything within about 1.5 to 2 seconds off the records would be good, as the track has slowed over the last couple of years, as the captain said.

The biggest thing for a fast lap time at Roebling is patience. If you can carry good entry speeds without getting the car out of shape by jumping back on the throttle too soon, then you will be fast. The turns are just so long that you HAVE to keep the car under you.

Although, if you have a loose car and get back on the throttle early ANYWAY, it makes for gobs of fun, just ask the captain, he had a bird's-eye view last time!

 

Oooo... can we all watch on the WhitneyMAX?

 

The captain is right! I've talked personally to Eric Foss (a Panoz school instructor btw) about that quick ITB lap he did. It was done right after the track was repaved and was very sticky back then. Now even the top ITB cars around are having a hard time breaking under 1:30. The ITA record... well lets just say that *no one* goes by that one, not even the ITS guys! The "unofficial" ITA record that people go by was set in '99 (I think) by Tom F. in a crx at a 1:23.x. I managed a 1:23.5 there last year in july, but that was during qualifying and not during a race (as Tom's lap was). Last year we also saw an ITB escort break the VIR long track record with a 2:17 and was marked on the results as the new track record holder. However, the driver was honest and humble enough to point out that it was a mistake since his real normal times were more than 10 seconds slower. A similar timing error happened with that RX3 at that regional and no one paid any attention. Or, it had a 3 rotor stuffed in there and fooled everyone! The ITS record stands right, since low 22s is what I've seen the top ITS guys run there in good conditions and even seen a high 21 once or twice in qualifying.

Roebling is definitely a rwd track, as any fwd guys would tell you. It's the track where the IT7s are right on fast ITA times in the sediv at most races and a strong track for the ITA/SM Miatas. The long turns that never end just kill a fwd's car front tires early on, while rwd cars can use other means to keep rotating and get through the turns. I think T3 is the most fun, while time is usually lost around the T5 area without knowing it. But the trickiest area I think is T1. You can always brake deeper in there then you think and also you can go through T1 *very* fast and only slow down for the exit (T2). It's so tricky because if you're flying into T1 with the car floating under you, there will come a point where you will need to scrub off your speed (one way or another!) before the long turn tightens at T2 and it will not be in a perfectly straight line, no matter which line you chose (there are a few different lines through T1). Also in a heavier and more powerful car, T3 and T9 get even more interesting because you can't go through them flat out as easily as in a lighter car. I've yet to follow an ITS car through those two turns without making up at least some ground on them. Even in the crx if you come out of the turns leading into T3 and T9 properly with good exit speed and you keep your foot planted, it makes for a very interesting time keeping the car pointed in the right direction through either T3 or T9 lap after lap especially when the track start getting greasy. To me Roebling seems pretty "basic" thinking about it in my head, but I still find it hard to get really fast laps consecutively without making small mistakes for some reason! It's a fast sweeping track and you'll love it, especially with RWD on your side to make it more fun.

 

Hey Bowie, what's up man! Yeah and if I'm not mistaken your 23.7 was set during a race, too. Was that at the SIC last year? You're flying in general, but you really know how to fly at roebling.

 

I'm going to watch the tape AND walk the track ... if I can.

Whitney <-- who is going to instruct at Roebling by saying, "Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn!"

Turn numbers for reference:


EDIT: I changed the 7-turn map (in r2x's post below) to the 9-turn map. Consensus seems to be for the 9-turn version. 9 turns sounds like more fun than 7 anyways...


[Modified by whitney, 1:03 PM 9/18/2002]


[Modified by whitney, 1:04 PM 9/18/2002]

 

Mike, want some secrets, huh. OK. Instead of brake fluid, use King Cobra. It's brown, so it must be good. Roebling is REALLY easy on brakes, so no need to use those expensive Blues/XP/R4/whatever you've got. Instead, just duct tape a wad of Bounty in your calipers, or use VGX pads (whichever is cheaper). Fill your tires with water. Seriously.

No need to thank me. I'm always here to help out my fellow DSP competitiors.


[Modified by MaddMatt, 8:23 AM 9/18/2002]

 

\

I've never seen this version before...

 

I looked at that ITA time too and thought dayamn was that when they allowed NOS in A Also, a word of warning to anyone not familiar with RRR and wanting to take down their good "I need them for my next race" tires, I'd think twice about that. IMO, it is to tires what CMP is to brakes (maybe that's just a fwd thing tho).

To add to what the captain, bowie and hracer said, it might have taken me a while to figure out but T4 entry is stupidly fast (and I might be alone here but I don't enter it track left - more like track center) considering what it looks like on paper and even driving it - I'd say the entry speed is about the same as T8 at CMP (and in my car, even though you "need" to shift to 4th to make it to T5 entry, its slower to do so and we just bounce off the rev-limiter to the braking zone). I think the minimized shifting (now I bounce off the rev-limiter from just past exit of T4 to T5 and for the last hundred feet or so entering T6) took a noticable amount off my lap times there.

For my car, its a 3 gear course. 5th-4th for T1, 4th-3rd for T2, 4th for T3, 3rd for T4 - T8, 4th for T9, 5th a bit past exit of T9.

Uggh, the ever-changing turn numbers - and I had just gotten used to calling T9, T8. Screw that, T9 from now on and I ain't changing again

 

Does anyone have a 9-turn map? I'm confused...

Actually, I've seen 10 turns referenced as well...

 

What Bowie and Ron said...

Mike, why do you think that I have that quote as part of my sig.? The first thing you do when you get into the student's car for the first time is say that. Then just sit there. It is priceless to see the look of their faces!

Have fun guys and remember that the track out for turn 9 doesn't extend to the trees.

 

Ther is no 9 turn map,just the map you see , there are 9 corner stations and that is what people use to refer to parts of the track. The station at the last turn on to the straight was station 9 theirfore if you went off their ,you went off in 9. Station 8 was on the straight connecting the "bowl" Stations 6 & 7 to 9.

 

The map I got at the track from the Bucaneer Region SCCA folks at my driver's school there had 9 turns, and my instructor, Adam Malley (big time Honda racer, multiple Runoff wins in Prod class Honda Civic), identified 9 turns. The difference between that map and the one on this thread is where this map has turn 6 the map we used had that as 6 and 7, a "double apex" similar to 1-2, and this map's turn 7 is that map's turn 8-9, another "double apex." I don't know if that map is "correct" or not, with respect to the original design of the track, but that's what we were given. You are probably correct about the corner stations. Unfortunately, that thinking has apparently been lost on folks as of late.

Also, I ran at Roebling for years with the NCCC before making the switch to wheel-to-wheel and it was always described with 9 turns by those guys as well.

FWIW

 

Hey Bowie! What's up? I saw your Miata for sale on ImprovedTouring.com.... you leaving the RWD world? Not building a Honda are ya? Coming to play in the ECHC?

 

OK, how many cars fry the bottom end on turn 7 (as show in the map above). It seems if there is a problem with oil starvation, it is on right handers.

whitney better watch his oil pressure gauge, or the bottom end will be coming apart again...

Scott

 

Accusump, baby!

I've never seen problems with IT cars there but I've seen more than a few street-class Corvettes go home from NCCC solo events with spun bearings from oil starvation in that corner. Enough of a reason for me to get the extra protection that 3 quarts of pressurized oil gives you.

 

My problem is with lefties -- not so many of those. The Accusump should keep the motor alive

 

Hey! the miata is definitely for sale, if anyone wants a REAL fast ITA car (albeit not a honda) then give me a call! hehe

As for leaving the world of RWD, I am really not sure of what is going on at this point. The only thing I have set in stone is to co-drive an ITB VW in enough enduros to keep my license next year....if anyone wants a co-driver, let me know!

As for the Honda Challenge, I will quote Boris Said: "If you are dumb enough to put me in your car, I will race it" Having started my racing life in a civic, I would love to come run with you guys....hell, my old engine and suspension already does run in the series!

We'll see how fast Rice's car will go this weekend.....Karl, don't forget our "foty" bet....I sure haven't!

 

A nice technique i was messing with going into turn 5B was working with lift throttle oversteer. Works very nicely to get the car rotated around that section. As for T9, stay in the throttle and hang on!

Edit: My avg times were 1:29ish on Kumho 712's.


[Modified by siisgood00, 2:03 PM 9/18/2002]

 

Stay off the track-out gators coming out of T5. Painted, slippery, usually covered with dirt. That was the location of my "What Happened" off.

Bowie - now that you and I are in "Spec Racer Integra," who drinks the 40 - the faster or slower driver?

--Rice, who isn't sure there's really a "winning" position with a bet like this...

 

Well, here is the way I see it: we both should get drunk! So how about this: the "winner" who would have the faster time, has to drink a 40 of Icehouse. The "loser" who would have the slower time, has to drink a 40 of whatever kind of crappy malt liquor we can find.

What do you think?

The only issue, is that i have to do a family dinner with my girlfriend saturday afternoon, so it may have to be a "public humiliation at a later event" kind of thing.....unless you change your mind and camp at the track, so it could take place after i get back.

 

I sounds like I am the only one here that thinks that this track is great for a FWD car? When my car had 120hp I mite get passed one or two times in a weekend by a RWD car with three or four times the HP. A well set up FWD car can rule that track!! Just my 2 cents.

 

Bowie,
FAHGETTABOUTDA drinking and eating!! We don't need no extra ballast at the ARRC !!

Y'all have fun down there. I'm getting ole yaller ready to inflict some serious pain at VIR, er, "friendly fire" of course.....
David Rhodes *165# and declining to 155# racin' trim by November *
HC4 #50
"speed makes me horny"

 

you better get that azz down to 155 if'n you want to drive MY car! biznatch