b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2009
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From: b-lo ny
b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
so i recently had an ls/vtec which spun a bearing.
and after thinking about it i thought,
should go with the b20 bottom end high compression?
a built ls with forged internals for boost?
or put stock internals back in the ls bottom end and run it again on oem specs?
i decided to go with an all motor application with high compression.
now this is were im at now...
i have just purchased ycp high compression b20 pistons.. which will make 12.5:1 compression on a b20/vtec motor.
acl rod bearings.
kms engine girdle - is this needed??
forged h beam rods.
engine block guard installed proffesionally
stock crank
stock bore of 84mm
cometic 84mm gasket
b16 vtec head
golden eagle vtec kit and dowles
skunk 2 manifold
pswrd jdm carbon fiber "whale *****" intake
precision 440cc injectors
walbro 255lph fp
aem fuel rail
aem fpr
took off the underdrive pulley!!!! i think it toasted my motor!! stock pulley
removed ac.
10.5mm wires
new ngk plugs
cam gears
mini mishimoto rad
fab slim fan
royal purple super cool coolant
earl/greddy hoses
dc headers to full exhaust w/ vibrant cat
ls tranny w/short throw stage 3 clutch
and a few other bolt ons..
with a chrome chipped p28 ecu.
tuned by a good freind whos the best period.
my questions are this, now after reading my mods and setup..
- is this 12.5:1 compression too high? with ycp pistons?
- are there any other necessary things i should do to stregthen the bottom end for high revs? and reliabilty?
- do i really need a kms aftermarket girdle?
- what should i expect whp wise and run times with this setup(i have new 15" rims tires/full skunk coils etc)?
- anything to be aware of that may go wrong?
- anything i should do while installing this setup for longevity and reliability?
- i heard the b20 oil pumps are good for vtec? so is the stock one ok?
anything would help at this point so please kindly post anything you have had experiences with, problems with, etc.. so i can be aware or change before completing.
thanks in advance
and after thinking about it i thought,
should go with the b20 bottom end high compression?
a built ls with forged internals for boost?
or put stock internals back in the ls bottom end and run it again on oem specs?
i decided to go with an all motor application with high compression.
now this is were im at now...
i have just purchased ycp high compression b20 pistons.. which will make 12.5:1 compression on a b20/vtec motor.
acl rod bearings.
kms engine girdle - is this needed??
forged h beam rods.
engine block guard installed proffesionally
stock crank
stock bore of 84mm
cometic 84mm gasket
b16 vtec head
golden eagle vtec kit and dowles
skunk 2 manifold
pswrd jdm carbon fiber "whale *****" intake
precision 440cc injectors
walbro 255lph fp
aem fuel rail
aem fpr
took off the underdrive pulley!!!! i think it toasted my motor!! stock pulley
removed ac.
10.5mm wires
new ngk plugs
cam gears
mini mishimoto rad
fab slim fan
royal purple super cool coolant
earl/greddy hoses
dc headers to full exhaust w/ vibrant cat
ls tranny w/short throw stage 3 clutch
and a few other bolt ons..
with a chrome chipped p28 ecu.
tuned by a good freind whos the best period.
my questions are this, now after reading my mods and setup..
- is this 12.5:1 compression too high? with ycp pistons?
- are there any other necessary things i should do to stregthen the bottom end for high revs? and reliabilty?
- do i really need a kms aftermarket girdle?
- what should i expect whp wise and run times with this setup(i have new 15" rims tires/full skunk coils etc)?
- anything to be aware of that may go wrong?
- anything i should do while installing this setup for longevity and reliability?
- i heard the b20 oil pumps are good for vtec? so is the stock one ok?
anything would help at this point so please kindly post anything you have had experiences with, problems with, etc.. so i can be aware or change before completing.
thanks in advance
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,635
Likes: 3
From: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
kms engine girdle - is this needed?? - I would recommend one, B20 sleeves are only **** to breaking because of low rpm / high load knock. They are just as strong as regular b series sleeves with a block guard.
forged h beam rods.
engine block guard installed proffesionally
stock crank
stock bore of 84mm
cometic 84mm gasket
b16 vtec head
golden eagle vtec kit and dowles
skunk 2 manifold - Go victorX or something more made for a 2.0liter setup, i dont like the pro series too much on b20vtec's.
pswrd jdm carbon fiber "whale *****" intake - Ditch this , go with a "real" 3'' intake setup, you'll make more power..
precision 440cc injectors
walbro 255lph fp
aem fuel rail
aem fpr
took off the underdrive pulley!!!! i think it toasted my motor!! stock pulley
removed ac.
10.5mm wires -Use regular old ngk blues or msd 8.5mm, you dont need 10.5mm wires.
new ngk plugs -With your high compression i'd at least run the bkr7's go with gap .035 , if you wanna try 8's i'd run 8's if i had the choice.
cam gears
mini mishimoto rad
fab slim fan
royal purple super cool coolant -...why?
earl/greddy hoses - they all the same ****.
dc headers to full exhaust w/ vibrant cat - No. Go with at least a RMF knock off or something with better primares. You wanna make power your motor has to breath. Run a 3'' exhaust and nothing less.
ls tranny w/short throw stage 3 clutch- Better run something shorter.. b16 or itr would be ideal for this setup.. gsr would get you by.
and a few other bolt ons..
with a chrome chipped p28 ecu.
tuned by a good freind whos the best period. - Another fact, i ran CromePro on my built b20vtec(13.0 CR).. i liked it, but you need to go more in detailed with the tuning. I suggest spending the extra money and go neptune or eCtune.. and i'm the best tuner , period
my questions are this, now after reading my mods and setup..
- is this 12.5:1 compression too high? with ycp pistons?
- are there any other necessary things i should do to stregthen the bottom end for high revs? and reliabilty?
- do i really need a kms aftermarket girdle?
- what should i expect whp wise and run times with this setup(i have new 15" rims tires/full skunk coils etc)?
- anything to be aware of that may go wrong?
- anything i should do while installing this setup for longevity and reliability?
- i heard the b20 oil pumps are good for vtec? so is the stock one ok?
anything would help at this point so please kindly post anything you have had experiences with, problems with, etc.. so i can be aware or change before completing.
thanks in advance
forged h beam rods.
engine block guard installed proffesionally
stock crank
stock bore of 84mm
cometic 84mm gasket
b16 vtec head
golden eagle vtec kit and dowles
skunk 2 manifold - Go victorX or something more made for a 2.0liter setup, i dont like the pro series too much on b20vtec's.
pswrd jdm carbon fiber "whale *****" intake - Ditch this , go with a "real" 3'' intake setup, you'll make more power..
precision 440cc injectors
walbro 255lph fp
aem fuel rail
aem fpr
took off the underdrive pulley!!!! i think it toasted my motor!! stock pulley
removed ac.
10.5mm wires -Use regular old ngk blues or msd 8.5mm, you dont need 10.5mm wires.
new ngk plugs -With your high compression i'd at least run the bkr7's go with gap .035 , if you wanna try 8's i'd run 8's if i had the choice.
cam gears
mini mishimoto rad
fab slim fan
royal purple super cool coolant -...why?
earl/greddy hoses - they all the same ****.
dc headers to full exhaust w/ vibrant cat - No. Go with at least a RMF knock off or something with better primares. You wanna make power your motor has to breath. Run a 3'' exhaust and nothing less.
ls tranny w/short throw stage 3 clutch- Better run something shorter.. b16 or itr would be ideal for this setup.. gsr would get you by.
and a few other bolt ons..
with a chrome chipped p28 ecu.
tuned by a good freind whos the best period. - Another fact, i ran CromePro on my built b20vtec(13.0 CR).. i liked it, but you need to go more in detailed with the tuning. I suggest spending the extra money and go neptune or eCtune.. and i'm the best tuner , period
my questions are this, now after reading my mods and setup..
- is this 12.5:1 compression too high? with ycp pistons?
- are there any other necessary things i should do to stregthen the bottom end for high revs? and reliabilty?
- do i really need a kms aftermarket girdle?
- what should i expect whp wise and run times with this setup(i have new 15" rims tires/full skunk coils etc)?
- anything to be aware of that may go wrong?
- anything i should do while installing this setup for longevity and reliability?
- i heard the b20 oil pumps are good for vtec? so is the stock one ok?
anything would help at this point so please kindly post anything you have had experiences with, problems with, etc.. so i can be aware or change before completing.
thanks in advance
upgrade your oil pump to a obdII oil pump also, upgrade your water pump as well. you'll have to also run a gsr/b16 timing belt as well...
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 50
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
yes i have arp studs in this mix. i totally forgot about them.
rod bolts i have to order.
obdII oil pump?? b20 or other application?
stock b20 water pump? or different?
and i have the timing belt already. i may upgrade to a gator. there about the same price as oem anyways.
what track times should this setup run?
how reliable is this?
is the high compression ok? with the parts listed?
anything i should watch out for?
and does anyone already have this setup or close too and have pics, hints etc on the build? goods/bads?
rod bolts i have to order.
obdII oil pump?? b20 or other application?
stock b20 water pump? or different?
and i have the timing belt already. i may upgrade to a gator. there about the same price as oem anyways.
what track times should this setup run?
how reliable is this?
is the high compression ok? with the parts listed?
anything i should watch out for?
and does anyone already have this setup or close too and have pics, hints etc on the build? goods/bads?
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Posts: 1,116
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From: stockton, ca, united states
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
Why do you have to order rod bolts? Which rods do you have? If Eagle rods, don't they come with ARP bolts already...??? High compression is fine if your tuner can tune it with pump gas. If you have easy access to E85 then that will be fine. It will be reliable as any motor can be if tuned properly. There is thread of a bunch of guys with high compression stock sleeve b20 builds. Search for it.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 50
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
ok so everything said so far i must still purchase the following...
gsr gator blue belt
b20 water pump
obd2 oil pump? vtec??
arp rod bolts
acl rod bearings
kms engine girdle ??? <--- do i need this?
forged hbeam rods? can i use stock oem? or is this a good idea?
added to my list of parts/mods/bolt ons so far....obviously.
this is getting pricey.
what times and whp should i be looking at if i squeez that extra bit on the dyno with an amazing tune/
and what is this motor capable of revving too now?
with a pretty stock head?
let me know guys. again anything is appreciated.
this is not what i was expecting, its costing a lot more then i figured.
the new list of parts shipped at cost are around 742.00 on top of the parts i just purchased. plus a tune (300.00) hmm and maybe at this rate some labor.. ($$$)
tell me exactly what is necessary to your knowledge/ and what can be oem spec.
this is all i need to know. im ordering as we talk and discuss this build.
gsr gator blue belt
b20 water pump
obd2 oil pump? vtec??
arp rod bolts
acl rod bearings
kms engine girdle ??? <--- do i need this?
forged hbeam rods? can i use stock oem? or is this a good idea?
added to my list of parts/mods/bolt ons so far....obviously.
this is getting pricey.
what times and whp should i be looking at if i squeez that extra bit on the dyno with an amazing tune/
and what is this motor capable of revving too now?
with a pretty stock head?
let me know guys. again anything is appreciated.
this is not what i was expecting, its costing a lot more then i figured.
the new list of parts shipped at cost are around 742.00 on top of the parts i just purchased. plus a tune (300.00) hmm and maybe at this rate some labor.. ($$$)
tell me exactly what is necessary to your knowledge/ and what can be oem spec.
this is all i need to know. im ordering as we talk and discuss this build.
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Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 50
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
i dont know what brand i ordered forged h beam rods and i dont know if they come with after market bolts.. so i was adding that in just incase.. i read its good to use arp... but if these come with aftermarket rod bolts i should be set in that aspect.. anything else guys?
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 50
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
they were jt forged h beam rods with arp rod bolts..
now my question here is can i use stock rods with high compression yrp pistons, arp rod bolts, gator blue gsr timing belt, acl bearings, oem water pump, oem b20 oil pump non vtec? and save 430.00!! for a total cost of 312.00 for all this?? minus the kms girdle and rods?
or is there some reason i need the girdle and rods for this build..
"all motor" - you should alwasy upgrade the rod bolts. The bottem end is strong enough with upgraded rod bolts to rev as high as you want. <-- is this true? so i dont need rods? just arp rod bolts? this would be great!
now my question here is can i use stock rods with high compression yrp pistons, arp rod bolts, gator blue gsr timing belt, acl bearings, oem water pump, oem b20 oil pump non vtec? and save 430.00!! for a total cost of 312.00 for all this?? minus the kms girdle and rods?
or is there some reason i need the girdle and rods for this build..
"all motor" - you should alwasy upgrade the rod bolts. The bottem end is strong enough with upgraded rod bolts to rev as high as you want. <-- is this true? so i dont need rods? just arp rod bolts? this would be great!
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Posts: 1,116
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From: stockton, ca, united states
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
OEM bearings will be fine. Alot of the pro's recommend and use OEM. ACL is also on backorder. You ordered rods and have no idea what brand they are? You have got to be kidding me... You can rev it as high as you want if you make power up there. Just have all the supporting mods to be able to rev high. Honda-tech is not a dyno or quarter mile strip so we can't really help you with that. Remember your horsepower is in your head. Contact Steve @ CCcylinderheads he'll give you amazing head work at unbeatable prices.
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 50
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
OEM bearings will be fine. Alot of the pro's recommend and use OEM. ACL is also on backorder. You ordered rods and have no idea what brand they are? You have got to be kidding me... You can rev it as high as you want if you make power up there. Just have all the supporting mods to be able to rev high. Honda-tech is not a dyno or quarter mile strip so we can't really help you with that. Remember your horsepower is in your head. Contact Steve @ CCcylinderheads he'll give you amazing head work at unbeatable prices.
and i have a buddy here that does phenomenal work that is helping me with machine work, tuning and anything needed i cant do.
ALLMOTOR should i purchase a 22 tooth pump? or just stay with stock. let me know. and i really appreciate your help.
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From: CA
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
You cannot install a block guard and maintain the stock bore. Installing a block guard requires that you hone your cylinders.
Or, just don't run a block guard. It has been shown that block guards will inevitably create more problems than they cure because of the hot spots they create by blocking the coolant passage.
Either way you'll probably be fine, just food for thought.
Or, just don't run a block guard. It has been shown that block guards will inevitably create more problems than they cure because of the hot spots they create by blocking the coolant passage.
Either way you'll probably be fine, just food for thought.
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7,635
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From: Baton Rouge,Louisiana
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
You cannot install a block guard and maintain the stock bore. Installing a block guard requires that you hone your cylinders.
Or, just don't run a block guard. It has been shown that block guards will inevitably create more problems than they cure because of the hot spots they create by blocking the coolant passage.
Either way you'll probably be fine, just food for thought.
Or, just don't run a block guard. It has been shown that block guards will inevitably create more problems than they cure because of the hot spots they create by blocking the coolant passage.
Either way you'll probably be fine, just food for thought.
Any true machine shop or engine builder will install a block guard first, then rehone your cyls to make sure they are still str8, its a known fact that a block guard will distort the cyl walls a bit and this can cause problems..
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
the block guard was previously profesionally installed. and i am purchasing a gsr timing belt (gator blue), water pump, oil pump. oem new. and as for my block it has a stock bore. so i'm goin to clean it and just drop new pistons, rings, crank, bearings, and leave the oem bore alone as well as the block guard. and put this car back together.
i wil post pics of the build for others having issues, and the final motor pic as soon as parts are all here. which should be very soon, this week.
thanks to everyone that helped. it is greatly appreciated! any other hints of advice, please post them as they pop in your head.
i wil post pics of the build for others having issues, and the final motor pic as soon as parts are all here. which should be very soon, this week.
thanks to everyone that helped. it is greatly appreciated! any other hints of advice, please post them as they pop in your head.
Thread Starter
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
all i am loking for right now is someone that may have a set of stock oem b20 rods. i guess mine are toast. 2 out of 4. and my crank is shot too...so i ended up sending back the forged rods, go figure. and i was going to use the stock ones that now i found out are shot. so anyone with possibly a set of 4 rods and possibly a crank for a decent price please pm me. i could call the company back that i sent mine back too and i guess have them reship them and look like an ***. they were JT forged rods for 250.00 shipped. if anyone has some insight on this or parts please let me know...
thanks again
thanks again
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Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
the b20 uses the same rods as any ls. they are just a standard pr4 rods. Im pretty sure the crank is that way as well but i am not completely sure. Pretty much the only difference between a b20 and ls is the bore size.
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From: b-lo ny
Re: b20 vtec full build questions....lots of them!
so any pr4 cranks will work? and pr4 rods? if so i have a spare b16 and b18 block laying around.. i dont want to pull them to pieces if i dont have to though.. does anyone know for sure if this is true? before i waste time pulling apart motors that are fine? please let me know.
thanks for the tip!
hope its correct. that will save me so much time and money!
thanks for the tip!
hope its correct. that will save me so much time and money!
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