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Does HPDE change service intervals

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Old Jul 24, 2010 | 01:11 PM
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Drive 4 fun's Avatar
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Default Does HPDE change service intervals

Oil changes are being well discussed on the “15k mile oil change” thread, so I am not asking that. Does tracking 800-1000 miles per year change your service intervals, such timing belt and water pump, distributor and rotor, and spark plugs? The obvious difference from street is 25 or more minute intervals of high rev and high heat, but, does it matter? For some parts of the car, it is said that a track mile is worth 10 street miles, but that may be more tires, brakes and suspension.
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Old Jul 24, 2010 | 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

your distrobuter will not last as long. personally, i havent had one last long enough to change a cap and rotor.
as for timing belt, i would change those a little earlier also. but again, i usually end up changing ithings cause something else breaks and i'm 'there anyway'.
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Old Jul 25, 2010 | 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

The one obvious service interval that changes is brake fluid. The normal recommendation for brake fluid flushes is every 2-3 years or 30-45K miles, whichever comes first. I flush mine at the start of the season, so I'm always using fluid that is no more than about six months old. I know some people change brake fluid more often than that.
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Old Jul 25, 2010 | 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

One concern is timing belt and water pump. If I drive only 5k miles/yr and of those, 1k track, I will "time" out the belt before miles. I used to drive it more, before stiffening. So, say 40k over 5 yrs with 5k track miles is no problem? Any rules on the distributor? I change brake fluid 2 times/yr, about, and pads as needed. I am just trying to stay ahead.
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Old Jul 25, 2010 | 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Originally Posted by Drive 4 fun
One concern is timing belt and water pump. If I drive only 5k miles/yr and of those, 1k track, I will "time" out the belt before miles.
The timing belt usually has a mileage AND a time interval specified in the manuals - such as 90K miles or 6 years, whichever comes first.
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Old Jul 25, 2010 | 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Well, one can answer this on both an empirical level and a theoretical level.

The empirical answer is "ask other people who have had parts go bad, not ones that change parts because they think they needed to".

The theoretical answer is that it depends on the wear mechanism of the parts.

Some parts just depend on the number of times they are used, and it doesn't matter if it is track or street. One example is your power windows or headlights.

Some parts depends on the total number of rotations (RPM x time) or cycles that they go thru. An example would be various parts of the ignition system. Assuming your average track RPM's is about 3x your street rpm's, then 1 track mile is worth 3 street miles.

Some parts depend of the total number of cycles times some other factor, such as heat or temperature, because it causes them to wear faster. An example might be your CV boots, or various engine and transmission seals.

Some parts depend on the number of cycles times the speed that they are run at, because the faster they go, the more force is on them. An example might be the timing belt, where the higher the rpm's, the more force it takes to churn the valve train. In this case, one track mile may be worth 3 x 3 = 9 regular miles.

Some parts, usually rotational, depend on the number of cycles times the speed squared that they are run at, because the forces they deal with are centrifugal, and that increases as rpm^2. An example might be various bearings in your engine, like the ...ummm.... one of the bearing things. In this case, one track mile may be worth 3 x 3 x 3 = 27 regular miles.

As for the water pump, it would depend on which part in it wears out.

Last edited by beanbag; Jul 26, 2010 at 02:01 AM.
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Old Jul 26, 2010 | 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Originally Posted by beanbag
Well, one can answer this on both an empirical level and a theoretical level.

The empirical answer is "ask other people who have had parts go bad, not ones that change parts because they think they needed to".

The theoretical answer is that it depends on the wear mechanism of the parts.

Some parts just depend on the number of times they are used, and it doesn't matter if it is track or street. One example is your power windows or headlights.

Some parts depends on the total number of rotations (RPM x time) or cycles that they go thru. An example would be various parts of the ignition system. Assuming your average track RPM's is about 3x your street rpm's, then 1 track mile is worth 3 street miles.

Some parts depend of the total number of cycles times some other factor, such as heat or temperature, because it causes them to wear faster. An example might be your CV boots, or various engine and transmission seals.

Some parts depend on the number of cycles times the speed that they are run at, because the faster they go, the more force is on them. An example might be the timing belt, where the higher the rpm's, the more force it takes to churn the valve train. In this case, one track mile may be worth 3 x 3 = 9 regular miles.

Some parts, usually rotational, depend on the number of cycles times the speed squared that they are run at, because the forces they deal with are centrifugal, and that increases as rpm^2. An example might be various bearings in your engine, like the ...ummm.... one of the bearing things. In this case, one track mile may be worth 3 x 3 x 3 = 27 regular miles.

As for the water pump, it would depend on which part in it wears out.
So, what is the "practical" answer?
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Old Jul 26, 2010 | 09:10 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

The practical answer is to change your fluids as often as you can possibly afford in order to have a car that is reliable on the track. I usually go no more than 2 track weekends on an oil filter.

Brake fluid is an iffy topic because not everyone uses brakes to the same extent, though it is a good idea to keep an eye on its viscosity and color. As brake fluid ages and is used, it begins to get thicker and darker. Any black particles in the brake fluid is usually a good indicator that you've cooked your fluid a time or two and it should be bled out.

As for timing belt, I'd do it early as well. While I'm certain that it is designed with a relatively large factor of safety, the more time you spend in higher RPMs, the more cycles you put on that belt. Someone who has 90k highway miles cruising at 3,000 rpm will not have nearly as many cycles as a race car with 75k track miles on it.
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Old Jul 26, 2010 | 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Originally Posted by The Mista Mike
As brake fluid ages and is used, it begins to get thicker and darker.
It also absorbs moisture, which lowers its boiling point, making it more susceptible to boiling.
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Old Jul 26, 2010 | 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

That's somewhat correct... Well, correct for most of us.

Some brake fluids are hygroscopic, which means they absorb moisture like you said. These brake fluids are generally DOT3 and DOT4. DOT5 brake fluid is silicon-based and is hydrophobic. If water is introduced to a system with DOT5 in it, you have different compressive forces working in the system and will experience a pedal with some interesting steps in it. But if you're running DOT5, you're generally not concerned with pedal firmness anyhow.
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Old Jul 26, 2010 | 12:00 PM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Im super **** about parts blowing up/ failing on me. I change the oil and filter before every hpde event and wont go more than 2 events on the same brake fluid, i probably put about 50 street miles on my car inbetween the 2 events. You can never be over prepared, it all comes down to your budget.
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Old Jul 26, 2010 | 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

From the 15k oil change thread,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive 4 fun
5-10 track days in the summer makes for a lot of oil changes if you change after each.

Reply Nsxtasy:
I hope you're kidding! There's no need to change oil after every track day. Not unless you're doing that professionally, anyway.

Earlier in that thread, Nsxtasy mentioned this comes from oil analysis post track.
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Old Jul 28, 2010 | 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Its really not that bad, I don't hit up as many track days as I used to
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Old Jul 28, 2010 | 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

i just did 4 track days on the same oil change, and its starting to get dirty-looking.

might not change it for the rest of the year, as i typically only street drive it a few thousand miles.
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Old Jul 28, 2010 | 05:33 AM
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Default Re: Does HPDE change service intervals

Without doing an oil analysis, there's not much room to say if you're changing it often enough or not. Some oil will get "used up" in one weekend, as shown by oil analysis. Others can last a much longer time.

That being said, I change my oil maybe once/year with 3-4 events and some street driving.
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