I'm in the process of removing my oil pump to check some things..

i came across this

http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...g+Common+Topic


Would it be beneficial to run the smaller washer to up the oil psi?

And here's a question, do oil pumps really go bad?? Persay?

I'm removing mine because the oil psi level at different driving rpms is too low.. so i'm going to remove and inspect..

what in a pump actually goes bad, considering its just gyros...discuss.

 

I've been rebuilding these oil pumps for years now and it only cost around $40. I also do what Endyn does to improve flow rate capacity and it only takes me an extra 30 mins or so.

 

switching washers??

and can you link me to the parts, i was thinking about upgrading my gears.. but have yet to decide..

1 step at a time.

 

The gear side clearance usually becomes excessive and that is what causes them to lose pressure.

 

i shimmed mine....went from 55-60psi hot to 80-90psi. the relief valve pops open at about 95psi and settles down to 80ish psi.

if you have the oil pump apart already then it would be a good idea to inspect the housings and gears for excessive wear and scoring. if you just want a slight bump in oil pressure a simple washer shim will work fine.

 

Just remember, if you decide to ever change that particular setup to work with a turbocharger, you will need to go back to a stock oem pump (assuming this will be for street use). Otherwise, it may cause some complications to the oil supply to the turbocharger that makes simply "putting on a restrictor" more complicated. Just an FYI

 

Well, its been a dwelling factor.. over the last few weeks..
any idea the part number of the washer to get?

and i'll post pics, i'm not happy with the oil pressure and its possible this valve relief is stuck open but i'll see..

When this motor was first together, i was getting around 80-90 psi hot at 9k.. now i'm only getting 60-70..
idle is anywhere from under 10psi to like 12.. but crusing is whats really bothered me.. when the car is warmed up fully, and i'm at like 4500rpms crusing it'll only get to 25psi..i do have a autometer gauge and i know they tend to go bad, however, i dont think this is the case..
id rather drop the pan, inspect the oil pump and make sure no shavings are in the pan.. there isn't any rod knock or signs so far..only thing i could think of, is the mains starting to go out, which is seeping pressure..

 

Scott, do you have those tolenerances off the top of your head for me?

 

Thx for the heads up, however i dont forsee myself using a turbo on my honda.. i've stuck to all motor for awhile, if anything else is done to this motor, its going k24..

I'll be buying a CTSV once i'm out of the academy..i'm not worried about turboing a honda.. my na one does just good.

 

I don't know off the top of my head, they are usually in the manual.

 

But why are you worried about 25 psi at cruise? That is plenty. It's not oil pressure that holds the crank up. Are you using a different grade oil than you used to?

 

I'll give you the run down.. Keep up , if you get lost lemme know.

When i first put this motor together, and was breaking it in all was fine. i was getting around 80-90 psi at redline, which is around 9200rpms.
and crusing i'd get around 30-50 depending on where in the rpm band i was.. I was under the impression its suppose to be for every 1000rpms = 10psi of oil.

after breakin i switched to mobil1 10-w30 and all has been fine. I checked the bearings in feb, and they looked almost still brand spanking new..
I Then saw a decline a few weeks ago, at redline i'm around 60-65ish psi and at crusing after, i'm fully warm at 4500rpms i'm at around 25ish psi..
At idle on a hot day , my autometer gauge will read almost dead 0 but the "regular" oil light wont come on..

I check my oil on a daily basis. I use regular itr oil filters from mobil1, the only difference this last oil change was they didn't have any, so i went with a k/n oil filter.
I always keep my stuff alittle bit over full because of the "huge" vtec oil line i have running off my sandwich plate..I assumed when vtec kicked in, because the oil gauge is running off the same plate, i'd lose pressure a tad bit.. I'm drainning the oil tomorrow, on a coffee filter and seeing if i see any brass spikes..
I'ma drop the pan too cause i'd like to just RECHECK everything.. but i'm not used to this low of oil pressure..
i have spoke to donf a few times about it, and he told me to try a heavier oil.. that i was getting high oil psi cause it was sooooo cold for along time here in louisiana, its hot as **** outside now.. and cold as **** in the winter.. we were in mid to low teens until middle of feb.. and now we're in the upper 90s with about 80-90% hum.. so it feels like about 110 outside..This oil doesn't break down.. its clean and stays clean, and like i said, i change it and maintain it...thoughts?

 

I wanted to shim the oil pump anyway, i was thinking of doing that in the first place.. it is alot to do for such a small thing, but i got too much invested, to question a oil pump..

 

Car is running good right? My first thought would be to throw a manual gauge on it just to confirm that your gauge is reading right. If you are going to change the oil I would recommend sending out a sample of the old oil to a company like Blackstone labs (www.blackstone-labs.com) to have it analyzed. They can tell you if there are excessive wear metals. You won't need to get the TBN because as I remember you change your oil often. If there are excessive wear metals then you know something is going on and you should pursue it further. Wear metals will be too small to show up in a coffee filter. If you drain your oil and you have chunks large enough to show up then you know you really have a bad problem. Did you check bearing clearance when you had it apart? Only main bearings will have an effect on oil pressure as the rods are fed through the mains. You could have sloppy loose rod bearings and good oil pressure as long as your main clearance was fine. I doubt the change in your ambient temp has a whole lot to do with the oil pressure because everything should be about the same once the engine is fully warmed up. Although it could to a certain extent. Synthetic oils do not change viscosity with temp like conventional oils so the 10w/40 rating is just an equivalency. I'm not an advocate of thicker oils because they do not protect your engine any better than a thinner oil. It is not the viscosity that is supporting crankshaft (or whatever is being lubricated) it is the film of oil developed by hydrodynamic lubrication. When the crank is spinning the oil film is actually stiffer than steel which means it's stronger than the bearings its being forced against. Thinner oils have the advantage that more volume will flow past the bearings and since cooling is a big function of oil the thinner oil will always remove more heat. Oil pressure is not what is needed for lubrication, it is volume. You could have zero oil pressure as long as you had proper volume and the engine would still last. However, since you have vtec you do need a certain amount of pressure to activate it. I do not know the minimum pressure spec.

Sorry about the rambling, it's been a long day. I think the order of things to do would be:
1. Manually check oil pressure (before you tear it down).
2. Send out a sample of oil to the lab.
3. Change oil and filter. Use the same oil and filter you originally did (Mobil 1 I think) and see how it does.
4. Wait for the lab results before wasting time tearing it down.

 

Absolutely Great response scott.

I'm currently using a mechanical gauge , however ill try something like a snap on...
When i change my oil i'll keep a small portion to send to the lab..
From there, i think i'ma still just drop the pan to see if i notice anything unsually, i dont really wanna tear the whole thing down and wasn't planning on it.. but thx or the in depth response.. and no you weren't rambling.. really informational and i hope it helps others in the future.

 

would be super helpful if you could take a few pics of "how to" when you shim the oil pump with the washer, I'll be doing this next month and am pretty new to honda specific stuff so I would appreciate it. Specifically how thick of a washer you end up using and how much that impacts your oil pressure as well as any porting/polishing you may do.

 

of course

 

i know it prolly is but ill ask is the oil pump fairly new? also on your mechanical gauge do you have the copper line or the cheap plastic. i never liked that plastic crap. if it was running at almost 0 pressure at idle you would think the dummy light would come on,they always did on the old ef's

 

dummy light works fine, but it doesnt come on when the gauge is reading almost 0. bearing clearences are withing spec. Ive spoke with donf and came out with the same measurements, he had. Its been rainning here so i havent had time to do aything, tomorrow i have to go to the police dept for some work, but hopefully this weekend ill drop the pan and take apart the oil pump, ima just go with a new one and shim it...

 

Update:

Pan removed and cleaned.. no signs of anything out of the ordinary.. No shavings or chunks.. motor is quite clean as well..tomorrow i'll remove the oil pump itself..

 

Scott after confirming with don, as of feb the clearences are dead on..so ya.

 

updates?

 

since somebody already brought this up.. i have an obd2 pump from a running engine 200k miles...i was gonna replace it but since im on a budget i would rather rebuild it..and just change the seals and spring....which is less than 10 bucks compare to 100 for a new pump? if my pump gears are whithin spec can i reuse the pump...? any diy on how to increase flow?

 

why don't u just switch to thicker oil and save some time?

 

Thats a bandaid.. in any case, i replaced the oil pump it didn't change anything really.. mains are out and what not so its getting new bearings..