Anybody read the latest issue of Grassroots Motorsports? Apparently they were big fans of the Kumho Ecsta 712's, especially for road racing. The 712's were their top street tire choice for a double duty road racing/autox tire. I haven't read the article, can anyone comment futher? I just find it pretty surprising...

 

Perhaps because it's so much better in the wet than the Falken and BFG??? And they certainly are quieter on the road than the Azenis.

I'm purchasing some Falkens for track duty. Should be much better than the 712s...unless it rains.

Edit: spelings hrad


[Modified by MaddMatt, 8:00 PM 9/14/2002]

 

I ran 6 events on a set of 712s. They are now my rain tires. They worked great and I never had a problem out of them.

 

Kumho Ecsta 712's are better than stock tires for autocross, but are no way one of the best tires. They scream bloody murder all the time and are not a carving tire (not precise tracking). I used both Kumho Ecsta 712's (225/55-15) on 15x7 wheels and Yokohama A520's (205/40/17) on 17x7 wheels. Results were the 17x7 wheel combo with the Yokohama A520 were noticeably better than the 15x7 with the Kumho's, even with the nearly 50lbs of wheel/tire combo on each corner with the 17" size... I believe the tire order went BFG KD>Falken Azenis>Kumho Azenis>Hankook Ventius... In my personal experience (soley auto-x) the Kumho Ecsta 712's are nothing special, except that they have a great price point. Their grip leaves something to be desired. Now in the wet that's different - yeah they would make a good dedicated set of cheap rain tires....but I'd rather go with BFGoodrich KDW for grip Wet and Dry even if they are more expensive;it beats needing two sets of ultra high performance tires...

BTW, I bet that KDW's in the wet will clobber Ecsta 712's to death in the dry - they are unbelievable in the wet. I thought the Yokohama A520's were great in the rain - the BFG KDW's way above the A520's (A520's are better in the wet than Kumho 712's....fully treaded of course) when it's wet.


[Modified by Vracer111, 10:06 PM 9/14/2002]

 

Well as to the 712s you can't find a better peforming tire for both wet and dry traction in the same price range with exception of the Azenis. Spend another $20 per tire and you still can't find a better overall performing tire if your looking at the 205/50-15 for $68. No they aint the best dry or wet but for the money your getting one hell of a street tire.

 

Also, the Sumitomo HTR Z eats the 712 up in terms of dry traction (and is equally good in wet), and they are about the same price as the 712.

Plus, sidewall is a tad stiffer on the HTR Z which makes turn-in better.

 

I've heard good things about the HTR Zs but I've never seen them or talked to anyone who has them personally. Kinda like an undiscovered gem. I do stand amemded on the HTR Zs.

 

The 712's are a great all around tire. Good traction, wet and dry performance, and tread life, and the price is right.

Anyone know anything about the Ecsta MX yet?

 

I have the HTRZ-2s (you guys mean the 2s, the 1s suck) as my daily driver tires. I have autoXed them and tracked them, with decent results. When switching over from the htrz-2s to the azenis for autoX, I didnt notice a _huge_ difference. On track they get real hot and greasy, just like the azenis.

one thing that GRM said was that the 712s got better as they heat up, so would be a good track tire. does anyone agree with this? my biggest problem with the azenis is that they only last 3 or 4 hard laps before they give out. I was considering the 712s or MX as a track tire (until Im ready for r-tires)

Evan

 

Do you guys know how the 712's preform in the snow? I just got my wheels a few weeks ago and snow is going to come in a few weeks here in Colorado. Tread looks better on my 18" 712's, than my stock 15's, but I dont know. Should I go back to stock or stay with 18's?

 

i had the sumi htrz2's for about 2 years. it was pretty good in the dry and initially pretty good in the wet. as the tread depth got shallower, it really scared me to drive in the rain. i picked up a set of the kumho 712's this past summer, and i think the dry traction is just slightly worse than the sumi's, but the wet traction is outstanding for the price. i've only run 2 autox's on the sumi's, and 1 hpde on the kumhos, so i cant really compare them at extreme conditions as i never ran a similar event with the different tires, but as far as daily driving, both are well worth the price.

-brian

 

712 great in the rain
so so in the dry
but great price

 

i've got the 712's on my car now and the front end just plows now, compared to my A520's the Kuhmos suck. they are okay in the rain though

 

did they even try the azenis? I'm really surprised at that, the 712s are kinda lame-*** from what i've experienced...my P7000s are better in the rain and the dry, and they're not what i'd consider great tires....i'd never track them.

 

I never cared for the 712s. They squealed so much at the auto-x, it was sad. Azenis are surely some of the best for dry traction. If we want to throw in wet traction, Azenis can be scary as the tread depth gets shallower. However, I don't deal with much rain here in the desert, so Azenis beat the 712s hands-down.

 

Don't even try snow in the 712's. A friend of mine trashed two wheels in the snow trying to get to school one day. Once again, don't even try it. You will be sorry.

 

Driving on any performance summer tire in the snow is asking for trouble. The Kumhos are no different.

 

I have kumho 712's, they are better than stock, but nowhere near as good as what I will expect from a top of the line tire. Value of the 712's is great though for a daily driver.

what do you guys think of the Yokohama ES100's? How would you compare them to the 712's? They are around the price range of the Kumho 712's.

 

no Azenis in 215/45R17

 

i agree with this. they're not really bad tires, but they're really not that good either. street use is great. sidewalls are too mushy, though.

 

So is this article online?? I'm curious to see what the 712's were tested against?

 

I also have the 712's and I would agree with most of the comments here, a good street tire, but not upto track use, mine are chunked. They do not work in the snow at all, get snow tires.

 

Get the November issue of Grassroot Motorsports magazine for all the details. They tested BFG KDs, Azenis, Kumho 712 and the Hankook K104. Toyo, Bridgestone, Yokohama and Pireilli didn't supply tires for the test but the new AVS ES100 along with Parada Spec-2s did get reviewed at a TireRack.Com release party just after the main testing was done and is just after the main aritcal in that issue.
In short the AV ES100, Supra 712 and Hankook K104 are pretty much the same in terms of dry traction and will do well on street rides but the KDs and Azenis are better for Auto-Xing and dry grip. No wet testing was done. Since I have both 712s and Azenis tires mounted at home I've got it all covered.

As to who was looking for a snow tire, IF you get lots of snow get a dedicated snow tire or an all season one like the Dunlop SP Sport 5000.

 

I've got no real gripes with my Kumho 712's.

I've only done 20,000 street miles, 150 track miles (VIR full course) and 1 autocross on them.

The track and autocross were in the past month.

On track I found them to be very predictable at the limit and quite forgiving (a good thing for my first track event). They also held up quite well to the heat (thtat was one big reason GRM liked them, rather than getting greasy, they tended to stick better when warm).

At the last autocross, I managed to run times faster than all the STS guys on their Falkens, and I'm in a stock Celica (Koni's and alignment). I beat all the guys on Falkens by 0.5 seconds, on a 37 second course. I'd have loved to take their cars for a run.

Too bad I ran DS (in a STS legal car), they still out paxed me.

But, the tires worked very well, the fronts tended to overload *much* easier than the Hoosiers I'm used to, but once I slowed down for the turns, the tires were crisp, and *very* communicative at the limit. I could go around all the sweeping turns with the tires singing away nice and quiet like. If they got loud, then I needed to slow down. I wish a Hoosier would talk to me that way.

Scott

 

Note: Matt, and the world's most expensive STS Sentra SE-R, was NOT in attendance at that event