Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Emissions complications. UGH.

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Old Jun 21, 2010 | 08:35 AM
  #1  
Kristin.'s Avatar
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Default Emissions complications. UGH.

Okay, so... here's the deal. I have a 1996 Honda delSol Si SOHC D16Z6. I'm having trouble with it passing inspection due to its emissions. I have gone through inspection three times. The read-outs are as follows.

June 15, 2010:
Hydrocarbons (HC):
Standard: 220.00 ppm
Vehicle Results: 387.00 ppm

Carbon Monoxide:
Standard:1.20%
Vehicle Results:0.56%

June 21, 2010 ~9:00AM:
Hydrocarbons (HC):
Standard: 220.00 ppm
Vehicle Results: 467.00.00 ppm

Carbon Monoxide:
Standard:1.20%
Vehicle Results:0.73%

June 21, 2010 ~11:00AM:
Hydrocarbons (HC):
Standard: 220.00 ppm
Vehicle Results: 581.25.00 ppm
Carbon Monoxide:
Standard:1.20%
Vehicle Results:0.45%


Now, my question is, how can I lower the hydrocarbons? On the back of the inspection sheet, it tells you what to do if you fail any of the particular areas of inspection. On the back of the sheet, for the hydrocarbons, it says to replace/repair the vacuum hoses, spark plugs, wires, distributor, egr valve, oil change/filter, timing....

I've replaced the spark plugs, the wires and the distributor. I also ran some "Guaranteed To Pass" through it, in hopes of it cleaning out some of the carbon build up, because it was recommended to me. I'm stumped. I don't know what could be the cause of these drastic numbers. If any of you have any insight, please help. Thank you.
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Old Jun 21, 2010 | 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Nothing?
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Old Jun 23, 2010 | 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

I found the following page that could help you figure out what to check out

http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=753
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Old Jun 23, 2010 | 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Any CEL codes? Have you checked the ignition timing with a timing gun? Has the thermostat been removed?
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Old Jun 23, 2010 | 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

here is a general thing to go by
HC: is usally "Unburnt something" could be fuel, coolant, oil. any of these things would cause high HC. motors arent designed to burn 100% clean so there is always going to be some emmisions and thats what the cat is for. on top of that epa decided that we should recurcilate crankcase fumes which doesent make for good HP or tailpipe emissions either. if you dont see any smoke coming out of the exhaust then you can pretty much eliminate oil and coolant being burned. not completly but unlikley. since you have already replaced the majority of your ignition sys I would bet on a cat but a temp gun will confirm that. a good working cat will be 100 degress hotter after the cat. you can pretty much take off 10% for every 10 degrees that it is lower so say that it is only 50 degrees hotter after the cat it is working at close to 50% efficency. another thing to try is while on the dyno leave the dist loose and adjust the dist while in diagnostic mode on inspection machine so you can see if advance or retarded timing helps. hope that gives you what you need to get it done. if there is smoke coming out the tailpipe then diagnois that first. good luck
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Old Jun 23, 2010 | 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

My friend has hc issues, his were in the 2000s though,
When he had the car tuned, it went down considerbly

The thing that confuses me is, your hc is getting worse everytime
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Old Jun 24, 2010 | 07:45 AM
  #7  
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Originally Posted by Aixia
I found the following page that could help you figure out what to check out

http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=753
Thank you.

Originally Posted by RonJ@HT
Any CEL codes? Have you checked the ignition timing with a timing gun? Has the thermostat been removed?
Checking the timing today. There's a CEL code, 41. Heated O2 sensor... but the O2 sensor has been replaced. It might need to be replaced again, considering my brother was driving behind me and saw flames shoot out of the exhaust.

Originally Posted by gsrhatch2356
here is a general thing to go by
HC: is usally "Unburnt something" could be fuel, coolant, oil. any of these things would cause high HC. motors arent designed to burn 100% clean so there is always going to be some emmisions and thats what the cat is for. on top of that epa decided that we should recurcilate crankcase fumes which doesent make for good HP or tailpipe emissions either. if you dont see any smoke coming out of the exhaust then you can pretty much eliminate oil and coolant being burned. not completly but unlikley. since you have already replaced the majority of your ignition sys I would bet on a cat but a temp gun will confirm that. a good working cat will be 100 degress hotter after the cat. you can pretty much take off 10% for every 10 degrees that it is lower so say that it is only 50 degrees hotter after the cat it is working at close to 50% efficency. another thing to try is while on the dyno leave the dist loose and adjust the dist while in diagnostic mode on inspection machine so you can see if advance or retarded timing helps. hope that gives you what you need to get it done. if there is smoke coming out the tailpipe then diagnois that first. good luck
I have a brand new high-flow cat from Spoon. I doubt its the cat. But thank you for your help.

Originally Posted by 98civdx
My friend has hc issues, his were in the 2000s though,
When he had the car tuned, it went down considerbly

The thing that confuses me is, your hc is getting worse everytime
I don't understand it either. It doesn't have a consistent read out. Yesterday I took it through inspection, just for the hell of it (and it's a free reading)... and the HC's were at 424.34.... so it's dropped a little bit but there's no telling if they're going to stay that way.


I do believe my timing is off because that's the only thing that makes sense. It's not smoking in any way, which is a good thing. If the ignition timing isn't correct, that makes sense as to why I have a flame-throwing car. It's not burning the fuel properly. Which, also makes sense as to why it'd be throwing an O2 sensor code, because it was fried by flames through the manifold.
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Old Jun 24, 2010 | 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Code 41 will make the engine run rich. Check whether the heater element power wire for the primary O2 sensor has battery voltage with the key in ON(II).
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Old Jun 24, 2010 | 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

This isn't always the case but I once had a
Problem with a high flow cat and once I replaced it with a oem one it went away. I either missed it or you didn't say anything about the check engine light. If the u2 heater is not working then it's not getting hot enough to work properly. Diagnose that first then move on to looking at your hc problem after that. Of course you want to get it tested after that but I bet it gets alot better.
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Old Jun 24, 2010 | 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

*o2*
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Old Jun 25, 2010 | 06:58 AM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Well, here's an update. I hadn't looked at my distributor because it had been replaced two years ago... and I didn't think it would be the issue. WELL, yesterday I took it off and looked at it, just to double check myself and sure enough, there were two gaping holes in the bottom side of it... and I don't know how that could have happened. But, it was leaking oil everywhere. So, I replaced the distributor and I'm taking it through the inspection station today and see how it goes.

If it doesn't pass, I'll post the updated numbers and go from there.

Thanks for all your help everyone.
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Old Jun 25, 2010 | 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Gee, that's madness...

I took mine to a shop this morning, and they still can't tell me exactly what's wrong (I'm failing NOx)
Told me they want to clean my IM for 518 - which I'm pretty sure I can do myself at the least.
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Old Jun 25, 2010 | 12:54 PM
  #13  
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

hc is because of incomplete cumbustion... spark related usually. nox is when the cylinder temps are way high, its running lean or timing off or there is carbon deposits in cumbustion chamber. which makes compression rise.
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Old Jun 25, 2010 | 02:39 PM
  #14  
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

Well, the distributor change did the trick! It passed today. I ran it through and the hydrocarbons are at 134.46

It's still a little high in comparison to what it was last year, but I'm content with the fact that it passed. New tags are already on and she's ready to go. Thank god.

Thanks everyone for all of your help! It was truly appreciated!
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Old Jun 25, 2010 | 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

move to florida and forget that emissions crap
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Old Jun 26, 2010 | 08:36 AM
  #16  
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Default Re: Emissions complications. UGH.

I'd rather deal with emissions crap than gators, large bugs and worse humidity than I have to deal with now. And I'd rather not worry about my Honda getting stolen... despite its issues.
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