whats up honda tech...........

First i wanna say please dont leave smart remarks. i am a technician and i know what i am doing this isnt the first engine build ive done.

im building a b20vtec. i finally got my head back from the machine shop. I put it on and was on my final torque sequence when two studs (arp) pulled out of the block ruining the threads obviously. i was maybe around 70 ft... i talked to my machinist and he said to completely strip my block back down and bring it back to him so he can put it on the cnc machine and drill out the holes for a 7/16 stud. if i did that i would need arp to make custom studs for me.. not only it this time consuming its also expensive.. he also did not recommend using the timeserts but i was doing some research and found alot of people using them. my question is how do they hold up? do they make the block weaker since ill be take a lot of material out? This is a fully built dd b20 which will hopefully be around 240 whp. i dont wanna take any chances since i spent so much already.. i wanna do it once and do it right!!!!

thanks for your time and info

 

http://www.timesert.com/

 

timeserts will defiantly work well....once installed correctly it's BETTER than the original aluminum threads....

you can attempt to drill and tap the holes to accommodate the larger studs but there is a greater chance of ****ing the block up completely....

 

I vote the guy above me sucks (Ehondajdm). **** happens sometime when your putting it together, Iv seen some people have the worst of luck for no apparent reason and Iv had some motors that were the best of luck, like a stock z6 on 21#s of boost ran great till the day I sold it.

good luck, hope you get it figured out

 

time cert, and if you need to go one stage bigger theres always the bigcert.

 

Cleaned thread up, infraction issued. If you don't have anything to add to this discussion.. don't post.

 

with all respect i did, i might not have been nice about it but my point is them threads should not come out except if they were being over tightened..

 

after continuous heat cycles over the years aluminum gets soft and the threads can fail.. typically happens when a block has been over heated but can happen on any block over time...

 

Well you need to quickly learn how to post a proper response in a thread.

What you posted will not be tolerated and your account will quickly be permanently banned from this site if i read another response such as what you posted here in this thread.

This forum is dedicated to help people, contribute.. hence '' all motor'' the all motor forum.. for n/a enthusiasts..

Not ********.

 

yea but at that point would you really want to even use a block thats been overheated like that??

 

sure at a point you wouldnt want to use the block but not just because of 1 or even a few failed threads with the head studs.. the common person cannot afford to just buy another block.. thats why companies like time fasteners make the kits to repair such things..

 

i have no problem using a block that has had a slight issue from overheating, as long as the cylinders can be corrected and the mains arent compromised then im fine.

but whos to say the the stripping is from overheating. it could just be fatigue from torquing them many times or hey just over torquing them. what torquing method are you using OP?

 

really? He didn't over tighten.

ARP recommends 75ft lbs of torque, and GE recommends 78ft of lbs, i went to 85ft on mine because i run my **** tight.. and never had a problem, 4th personal engine i've built.. 8th overall..

timecerts will work perfectly, have a machine shop install them however.

 

You probably want to find out why the studs stripped out in the first place. Not to be rude, but just by going from experience it sounds like you did something wrong when you installed the head studs. Find out what the problem was before you install the studs a second time so it doesn't happen again.

The threads in the block aren't subjected to a lot of stress so I highly doubt it was a fatigue failure of the aluminum. Go back through the ARP instructions to find what doesn't match up with what you did. Did you forget to lubricate the threads? The studs are only supposed to go in finger tight, did you over-tighten? Were the studs cleaned of debris and packing material before installed? When is the last time your torque wrench was calibrated? Just food for thought...

 

Why the heck would you go over recommended torque on purpose?! And what does "run my **** tight" supposed to mean?

 

Just a habit.. i've always gone a few pounds over..

I torqued it 6 different times tho

20/40/50/60/70/78 then final settings i choose.

 

Just a habit?

It doesn't matter how many increments you torque the fastener, the final torque is what matters most. The habit of going over is an extremely dumb habit to have. Do you really think you know better than the engineers at ARP who design and test these fasteners to recommend the best torque value to achieve the best performance out of the fasteners? Do you know what "yield point" refers to?

 

On that note, good night , i'm not going to argue.. my ways haven't failed me in my 10 years of tuning and building.. so i'm done.

 

LOL, alright well if that's how it's gonna be, I'd recommend you try to pick up a book called High Performance Fasteners and Plumbing by a guy named Mike Mavrigian. It's only about 166 pages and I paid about $20.00 for it from Borders bookstore. It's got some info you might wanna check out to cure you of your bad habit.

 

.. I just bought that book yesterday..lol...that and another tuning book from boarders here..

Glad to know its good..for some late night reading.

 

Are b20 blocks really that hard to come by and that expensive? How much work did you have done to the original block? It seems if you are concerned about it and have already put a lot of money into the build, you might be better served picking up a new block and doing that part over. Yes, it will set you back a couple hundred $, but for the peace of mind...

 

you only need 60-65ft/lbs on the head studs with molly lube. anymore and you are stretching/damaging the threads on the studs and/or block.

for those who crank them to 80+....next time you remove them you will feel the nuts not spinning smoothly over the studs...kinda feels like there is dirt on the threads....those are damaged and not usable anymore.

arp has been in business longer than all of us have been alive...they torque specs they give you are what you should follow....and for good reason.

 

It's a good read to educate someone as yourself why over-torquing fasteners is stupid.

I'm still curious as to what "run my **** tight" means. Seriously, if you choose to ignore sound advice, and continue torquing fasteners to a final value that you make up all on your own, don't come on here giving less experienced guys the idea they should/could do the same. That's just gong to increase ARP sales and make these block even harder to find in junkyards, lol.

 

If it isn't sleeved, just buy a new block. Plus you can find a decent sleeved one for cheap now.

 

There isn't any use telling this guy he over tightened his head bolts, jimmy gave me an infraction last night cause the op and two other guys wanted to tell me headbolt in hondas always strip. The guy eather has a cheap torque wrench or something.
You beating a dead horse guys, he should just get a new block and practice torquing head bolts on his stripped block