I am hoping to appeal to some HT members with experience doing B16 swaps (or any swaps, really).

Here's my story:

This is my first swap. I am somewhat mechanically inclined, but enlisted the help of a very good friend who has worked on cars for 15 years, and has experience doing engine swaps...but not a lot of experience with Hondas and he's stumped on this one so that puts this problem beyond me.

Here's the problem:

I swapped a B16a1 into my CRX. Engine has a cable tranny mated to it (Y1 w/LSD). Purchased from Hmotors. Motor is in, wiring harness was purchased from Rywire. There does not appear to be anything that is unplugged. This is the 3rd day of this swap, and most of today was spent looking over everything.

Engine will not run. When I crank it, it cranks OK. It starts to turn over, and sounds REALLY REALLY rough, almost like it wants to start, and then it does kind of start and then it quits. I just want to stress that point because it is cranking just fine. AND, it starts momentarily while I'm cranking it but if I stop cranking it dies. Even if I do keep cranking it, it dies and then goes back to cranking again but won't start.

Checked:

Spark plugs-they look great

Plug wires-they looked great, but swapped out the ones on it with new ones pulled out the spark plugs and checked for spark using the wire, grounding it. Good, strong spark.

Injectors-they're clicking/working

Wiring harness-confirmed with Peter at Rywire that the harness is hooked up properly

Fuel-it's getting fuel and the spark plugs got wet in the cylinders during the day from troubleshooting. Wiped them off, dried em, then aired out the cylinders to clear out the fuel just in case we flooded it

Checked timing belt. It's dead on.

Changed distributor cap because it looked a little corroded inside. However, distributor looked fine so it's whatever came with the motor...and here is something worth noting --> when we clocked the dizzy all the way back to the firewall, it cranked quicker and this is actually how we got it to sort of start-then die before it was done cranking. We checked spark with the dizzy and new cap, and it still sparked nice and strong. Clocking the dizzy towards the bumper slowed down the cranking and didn't do squat for us to get it to turn over.

We thought perhaps you could pull the dizzy off and move it one tooth, but it's not geared, so you can only turn it 180 degrees, but you can't even do that. We could only get it on one way. It almost seemed like it needed to be farther back towards the firewall though on the adjustment. Incidentally, the Dizzy is lined up properly (or so we think, since it only goes on one way) and is firing in the correct order.

Checked ground wire - good.

Compression-good. There is even compression in all cylinders though we weren't really worried about it since the motor was from Hmotors.

...so, we are at the end of our collective ropes because we checked fuel, spark, and compression, yet it has to be one of those things. We figure we are missing something stupid.

Any help would be very much and greatly appreciated, since we are both basically stuck at this point and out of ideas. I don't want to go replacing random parts, but if anyone has good ideas on what this is-I'm thinking someone has to have had this problem before. Please help!

Thank you for whatever you can offer...

 

sounds like the dizzy is 180 out. it can be put 180 out i did it before on a b16. did the same thing as your describing. either that or the plugs are backwords.. #1 cyl is closest to the timing belt

 

That's interesting. We could not get it 180 out. Hmmm...but it did the exact same thing?

I don't think the plugs are backwards. We checked them so many times...so many, many, times that I think I will see them in my sleep.

 

yeah i put my dizzy on backwards with my b16, ive heared it cant be done but i know it can. mine would start when i cranked it and run reallly rough, then shut off when i quit cranking. like yours i retarded the timing all the way to even get it to half way start. i would try swiching the wires and see what happens. cant hurt anything and will tell you if somethings backwards

 

Hmmm....well the dizzy was on from Hmotors like it is now...then, we tried to turn it 180 and then put it back on the way it was before. OK. So, just to be sure I am doing this correctly, because we couldn't get the dizzy to turn 180. Like, it wouldn't go on all the way...so you're saying there is a way to do it? Would you be willing to tell me how you did it? Those little ears don't fit properly (or at least we couldn't get them to).

 

i just turned the ears over and bolted it back up.. but before you do that just swap the wires, heres a thread that has the proper firing order in it just to make sure.. this guy had the same problem he had it backwards

 

oh, and what model is the crx? did you do a mpfi swap?

 

it's a 1991 dx, and rywire did the harness and yes I had to do mpfi wiring.

Where's the link to the thread?

 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/swap-wont-start-correct-firing-order-jdm-b16a-obd0-da09-1621335/ lol sorry

 

OK, here is where I am at...I just went out to the garage and tried to clock the dizzy 180. It simply will not go it. It'll go half way in (tilted at an angle), but upon close inspection of the little keys on the dizzy, it doesn't look like it's possible to clock it 180. I might be wrong, but they look like they will only go in one way. I tried multiple times and it will only go in one way for me...

It's OBD 0, I don't know if that makes a diff.

EDIT: RE: the wires....I found the thread that you linked to...I swapped the wires around...nothing. It actually wouldn't get as far as it was getting (the weak start/sounds like the engine is hacking up a lung before failing), so I switched them back and it's back to trying to start up again.

 

hmm.. this puzzles me also.. so your sure you have fuel and spark? is there any engine codes?

 

I bought a dizzy for a 94 LS froma local junkyard and got home and it was exactly like mine except the cam-interlock was clocked wrong. Never figured out why or what it went to, had to get another.
Set the engine to TDC#1 and pull the cap off the dizzy and see if the rotor is pointing to #1

 

@ Blasterman-Not throwing an engine code. Yes, I am 150% positive it is producing spark and that there is fuel. I know on Sunday and yesterday, we spend some time airing out the engine with the air compressor because we thought it had flooded there was so much fuel. As I said in my original post, we even checked the injectors and they're working.

And, there is definitely spark. We checked the spark plugs and wires so many times, well, it got to be a little silly.

AND, we checked and rechecked the timing on the timing belt. It's DEAD on. Those marks on the cam are lined up and the mark on the lower valve cover lines up...they all line up. I couldn't tell you how many times I turned that engine over by hand, but it was a lot, and that's what we initially thought is that we missed something stupid, so we kept checking it but the timing on the cam gear side is accurate. This is what we're pulling our hair out over.

@ Jaime 91SiB18- Yes we checked that too. The dizzy is pointing to #1. I re-read over blasterman's suggested post again, and switched around the dizzy wires because I couldn't get the dizzy to clock 180, but tried switching the wires around. Still didn't work. They are back to the way that they are supposed to be now.

 

just to double check, first off what ecu are you running? secondly, your dizzy and ecu are both the same obd right? (just checking) thirdly you're not using obd1 injectors with a resistor box, or obd0 injectors with out right?

those are the only things that come to mind

 

@ DCRB, the ecu is whatever came with the swap from Hmotors. This is what I purchased: http://hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000...age&item=30002

It says PR3, PW0. The dizzy came with the motor, so I am assuming that Hmotors did not screw me on this. I have never heard anything bad from them. Quite the opposite actually. But yeah, I understand why you're asking. Also, the injectors are what came with the motor since it was a complete changeover. It's OBD0 with a resistor box.

I'm trying to get ahold of Hmotors now. I'm seriously running out (actually, I am out) of ideas since the three things that it ought to be are fine...yet, there must be something I'm overlooking here...

Thanks for the suggestions. If you have any other ideas, I am ALL ears man.

 

I am going to chime in here since this car is in my garage and Dave and I have been working on it for the past 3 days... I just checked, and the ECM is a PW0. I wired in all the pins for the add-on harness wiring as per RyWire's instructions. . The motor seems to 'almost' strart when the distributor is turned toward the FRONT of the car, (clockwise if looking at the dist. directly) not toward the firewall. Not to try and correct you Dave but just want to toss that out there in case it matters for anyone's ideas. We have set the engine at TDC by checking for compression in #1 and the marks on the crank. Both line up, watching a screwdriver rise and then fall when the piston is at TDC. . When checked, the dizzy is pointed directly at #1 plug wire post. I tested the spark at the cylinders by grounding a spark plug to the head with the plug wire connected as Dave turned the car over to see nice healthy spark. The injectors were 'tested' to verify they're working by putting a long screwdriver to my ear and listening for that telltale 'Tick' when Dave turned it over.. I get both good spark and a tick from all 4 injectors and plugs.

How would you go about checking codes, and would it even be throwing codes at this point, considering it hasn't un yet? I ran a 4 gauge ground wire to the old power steering bolt hole on the side of the head directly back to the battery because I've seen some funky ground issues before if the motor is not grounded properly. That didn't change anything. Sorry guys, I have only worked on Civics and Preludes in the past, I'm not that familiar with CRX's. I've done engine swaps before but this is my first B16 swap experience..

 

Whoops, sorry Timmy. I thought you said you were pushing the dizzy towards the firewall. My mistake!

 

it sounds kinda like an ECU issue. Because ECU issues explain alot.
Try putting an OBD-0 LS ECU in and see if it works.
But yea, you got us all stumped

 

Good I'm glad I'm not losing my 'touch' and that others are as stumped as me! haha No prob Dave I just wanted to make sure we had accurate data out there. The only other ECU we have on hand is the stock CRX PM5 ECM. . yeah this one is a mystery. Dave needs this back and running ASAP. I just tried starting it again and it started but fumbled breifly (like 3 seconds) then died... After that, nothing. Would there be any codes thrown at this point that would be valuable? If so how do we get these? Thanks for any help you guys can provide!

 

Codes wont pop this early Unfortunalty.
I think the best bet is to get ahold of a second ecu. its one more thing to rule out.

 

if your car is a dx an u converted it to mpfi.. im pretty sure u have to wire in a resistor box to control the injectors?? they are clicking but are all four spraying...

 

sounds like the firing order to me, and to all these people that say the dizzy is 180 out or the have installed a dizzy 180 bullshit there is no way it would have bolted on

 

this has got me lost... ok heres a thaught, on the dist theres 2 white wires, if they werent wired right on the harness you baught it can cause these problems. im not blaming wiring skills but it would be easy to do as there the same color..? any possability of this?

 

There is a injector resistor box wired in by RyWire. It came with his harness. They are spraying, yes because all 4 plugs were soaked in gas when we pulled them out on Monday, after trying to start it for a while. Yeah I didn't think there would be any possibility of codes being thrown this early.
Interesting thought on the wiring scheme for the dist. I suppose that could be a problem. It may have accidentally been switched.
I double and triple checked the firing order on this, and Dave tried switching, in case the dist. was 180 degrees out.. No luck there either. When I get time to go out there again I'm going to double-check my add-on harness wiring and make sure I wired them in correctly......

 

i also think the 2 white wires are the most likely thing if they are back wards your timing will be retarded also the 2 blue wires on with yellow stripe and one with green strip try that, also in the future do mpfi swap first get everything ruled out then do a swap every time ive seen someone do it all at once theres always problems unless of course you actually have some experience