Finally hit the dyno after fixing all the small problems.

Very dissapointed with the final numbers. With that said this car is running a full stock exhaust from an ex/si with a stock integra cat converter.

Is it costing me a ton of power, I'm not sure but VTEC made pretty much 0 power. Maybe one of you guys has an idea what is happening.

The setup is:

GSR block and head
blocked decked 0.008
81.5mm RS Machines PR3 pistons
OEM GSR rods with ARP rod bolts
ACL race bearings
OEM ITR water and oil pumps
GSR Crank balanced and micropolished

head has been port and polished
S2 Pro Series high comp std valves
S2 Pro Series dual valve springs
S2 Pro2 Camshafts
S2 Pro Series ti retainers
S2 Pro Series intake manifold
mFactory cam gears
Blox 68mm TB
3 inch intake w/ Blox vstack
ITR cast header

stock fuel injectors and pump for right now, plugs were BKR7E's


low cam tuning, alright making good power up to now...


VTEC crossover, not making any more power until really up there


Final numbers VTEC is set at like 7200rpms



Log of a/f and power/torque



Cams are set to 0 intake and +4 exhaust as per skunk2. I also my machine shop degree them but it didn't even look like they did anything so I am pretty sure they didn't degree them but still charged me for it... VTEC is engaging, there are no codes and \i can hear a very audible crossover.

They also didn't give me the P2V or V2V so hesitant to change the cam gear settings.

Thoughts comments?

 

Have you done a leak down or compression test to make sure the engine is health? How was it broken in?

 

it was broken in on the dyno and sounds perfect, it also doesn't puff anything out of the exhaust.

I want to do a compression test but I seem to have lost the keys to my stupid toolbox since I am moving soon and had packed it up. If I find them before leaving I will run one for sure.

 

I think this was discussed in the Pro2 vs Tuner series thread that the Pro2's are so powerful that they **** on the smaller tuner 2 cams...put in some tuner 2 cams and watch your power rise my friend . The Pro2's are not meant for everyone...but i am sure it would trap high at the strip lol.

 

your really getting rediculous now.

you cannot make a SINGLE damn judgement on this setup based on that dyno.

with a stock cat and exhaust and an itr header, you have back logged the system so bad with reversion and back pressure that it is useless.

not to mention that for for that setup there is a chance you were over cammed from the get go.

 

compression is right around 12:1 and aside from the exhaust these cams should work with this setup.

My exhaust cam gear was at 4 degrees but reading Brian's post from Skunk2 in my other thread he seems to say that every degree on my type of cam gear (mFactory/Toda style marks) would give me 2 degrees of crank advance. Since I have the exhaust set a 4 would that mean I am now 8 degrees advanced and this could explain VTEC falling on its head?

 

4 degrees of advance on the exhaust cam timing will not cause the high cam power to react like that. It would not hurt to set the cam timing to within a proper range. You can retard the intake cam a degree or two to reduce EVC/IVO overlap.

I agree with the other posts. Examine the mechanicals of the engine first. Make sure compression and leakdown aren't bad, and verify you are not off a tooth on your belt.

EDIT: Post a screen capture of your low and high cam ignition table also.

 

Its real bad for the head to cross vtec that late. ***** moving to fast!

Did you try 0,0?

I would!

 

I am told that 0, 0 on these cams will create v2v contact.

The car sounds like it's running on all 4 cylinders, doesn't cut out anywhere, doesn't have any CELs, idles perfect and VTEC is very audible when it switches over.

It is very responsive on the street so compression should be pretty good and it doesn't puff any smoke out of the exhaust even at 9k rpm.

If I find the keys to my toolbox before moving I will check compression ASAP. We also checked timing and it was fine and moving around as it should under load. This was confirmed in Crome and with a timing light.

 

If you want to get your cam timing correct spend some time to actually degree the camshafts. Generally we find people will come up with a 4° separation between intake and exhaust with the exhaust being 4° more advanced than the intake. If your cam gears are of the style in which 1 mark = 2° of crank timing, then you would only want to advance the exhaust gear 2 marks which would = 4° of timing. 8° is way too much.

Also to touch on the Vtec engagement, when the primary lobes are big like the Pro Series they will carry higher in the RPM range pushing vtec engagement higher.

I typically like to see the Pro 2's engage around 6500-6800 rpm. I do not think that is your problem. I would begin by setting your exhaust camshaft to +2 marks rather than +4 and then verifying that you have good compression. As always if you want to make SURE your cam timing is correct break out the degree wheel.

 

should have played with cam timing a bit last night... It was getting late and we just called it after we saw that.

Let's say it has 8 degrees on the exhaust is it possible the low cam would still make 130whp?

 

i'm running skunk2 camgears

 

lot of guy there would be surprised in case of such a comparison U made to set VTEC crossover

Nothing wrong here!

cams with 2 large nonVTEC lobes extend power range with ~1500rpms when the VTEC lobe is activated

 

I guess you don't have to be a newb to give extremely bad advice these days....


And how is that in any way relevant to this discussion?


One thing that's confusing a few people is degrees. The cams only turn at half the RPM the crank/engine does which is why 1 cam degree = 2 crank degrees (degrees at the crankshaft). When it comes to talking about cams, we always refer to adjustments in cam degrees as that's how it should be. Cam degree marks are VERY fine on a cam gear and are sometimes hard to adjust perfectly so some manufacturers space out the marks on their cam gears so every mark equals 2 cam degrees or 4 crank degrees. This throws some people off so you have to make sure you know how your cam gears are marked so you'll know how to properly adjust them. From what I gather, the regular Skunk cam gears are marked in 2 cam degree increameants while their pro series gears are marked in 1 cam degree increaments. I personally like the vernier scale type gears like the Toda/Spoon gears as they are extremely easy to adjust accurately, 1 cam gear at a time.

 

Those numbers are sad. Are you positive you have Pro 2 cams installed? Given where they are making power, you probably do. My guess is some other problem like your cams being off a tooth or something because even on the low cam you should be making over 100 ft/lbs of torque. Are all your rocker pins installed properly? Something is majorly wrong and it isn't just the fact that you have the wrong cams for your engine installed.

 

i agree with others on the cam timing being off. im sure you already know but that exhaust with the stock integra catalytic converter is not aiding the problem at hand. after you get to the bottom of this fiasco, do you plan on upgrading your exhaust? i hope so
....you're probably better off with some pro1's

 

supprise you went to get your car tuned with the stock injectors

its going to lean way out at the top end but doubt its causing your problem

 

The exhaust is temporary, I am moving soon and the car will need to pass an out of province inspection. Once that is done, I will be running a full 2.5 inch back with test pipe and a better header.

With that said, the exhaust is not making me lose 30whp when VTEC crosses over.

I have the vernier scale type gears that mFactory used to sell and the exhaust is set to 4 as confirmed by their instructions and 3 people including my tuner. Intake is set to 0.

The engine is extremely responsive even at low RPM and does not smoke at all which leads me to believe it is healthy. I will try and do a compression test in the next few days or as soon as I find the keys to my box, my house is a mess due to the move happening soon...

They are 100% Skunk2 Pro 2 cams, they have the p2+ marking on them, I ordered them brand new from Skunk2 and they came sealed in Skunk2 Pro Series boxes with the corresponding stickers on the boxes.

I will check timing again tonight to see if someone one of the gears slipped or if the crank and gears done line up at TDC.

Even with the exhaust the way it is, I should still see gains in VTEC everywhere. This thing is breathing through a V Stack, blox 68mm tb that opens all the way and a port matched skunk2 intake manifold.

The head is also port n polished and the seal/rings are all brand new.

The head gasket is sealing properly and even after 2 hours and 50 pulls on the dyno it never overheated.

 

I thought the same thing until I looked at his A/F. Pretty solid numbers from what I saw, plus stock injectors dont max out at 133whp. That and they dont cause power limitations in the bottom/middle rpm range which is another problem with this build. The low cam seems to be producing decent numbers, but the vtec engagement isnt doing crap. Means something is off. Vtec rocker pins arent properly installed/locking. The valve lash is too tight and the BC on the vtec rocker is causing the valve to stay cracked. Something is an issue with the vtec lobe/engagement.

 

The valve lash was only set on a cold head not while it was warm, could it be that far off?

With the exhaust that is on the car I was expecting a max of 160-170 whp at my altitude and knew the stock injectors would be fine at that power level. I do plan to change them, the pump and the whole exhaust system once I have moved and have some time.

I installed the rockers myself so they may be installed wrong, would VTEC have an audible crossover and the a/f stay constant if some cylinders engaged and not others? I was pretty sure I installed it all correctly but who knows.

 

have you tried taking the exhaust off and see what happens?

 

try dropping the catalytic converter out on the dyno....if it was a used one me thinks its clogged

 

You're supposed to do this when the head/engine is cold. If it's warm, it will throw off the readings.

 

its funny that everyone really thinks that that header and exhaust setup could come even close to handling the flow that motor is producing.

i would love to see the look on your face when you ran it open exhaust and picked up 30whp.

you have choked the systems with back pressure and reversion waves. i wouldnt go on a witch hunt for other problems until you try that.

 

run it open header and see what you get. Than put a decent header on it and you should gain even more