Ok guys this has been talked about before and I saw that tons of people have had good success with State Farm Insurance. So today I give them a call and ask for their exclusions and whether or not they cover HPDE's. The lasy started laughing at me and told me to hold. So she talks to the underwriters and they said that if they are covering anyone then there is a big mistake and State Farm receintly changed their policies on HPDE's.... Anyone heard of this or I am getting the run-around? I currently have Geico, but their rates are kinda high. Any thoughts?

 

I have heard this, my dad sells insurance and I recently checked what my insurance (SAFECO) covers. Both Autocross and HPDE would be excluded under my policy. Good luck trying to find coverage but they are all going to these types of policies.

 

Guess it's a good thing you asked ahead of time!

 

I realize the risk involved and I am willing to accept that, but switching to insurance that would cover it would be nice....

 

It's usualy only nominally risky, unless you drive like an A$$ on track.
Supposed to be a learning experience, not a race!

 

I dunno, but I would imagine the cost of such coverage (never heard of a company that offers it, at least in Quebec) would probably be higher than the value of the car over a couple of years...

 

Fortunately my company (a common TV advertiser with policy's available online) sends out a little booklet that spells out the Policy in black and white.

They can't just ammend it without telling you, and at this point, there are NO exclusions in it for any form of motorsport (not even wheel to wheel). So long as you aren't using the car for a business, you are good to go.

Scott

 

The other problem many of us Hybrids run is that if our cars are Stolen or wreck on the street, chances are that the insurance company would give us less then what we got into them. Book value in many cases is less then what my swap cost me.

 

Old topic - resurrected!

Just spoke with another agent at my insurance company (AIG).
A few months ago, I was told I was covered, now they are saying I'm not. I questioned where in the policy it says this would be an exclusion and the agent, after consulting with an underwriter, read some statement about "off public roads" and for the "purpose or practice of racing or other competitive event". My copy of the policy didn't include this verbiage, so I requested they send me a copy for review.
Since HPDE's are a form of school, are not "racing", and are not a "competitive event", I asked specifically how that exclusion would pertain to HPDE. Their answer: The policy covers "normal driving" and they don't consider HPDE "normal". I am not a lawyer (don't even play one on TV) but the definition of "normal" if not fully stated in writing on the policy sure seems like a grey area to me.
Crux of the situation, I'm looking for another insurer that will cover for HPDE. Anybody have any luck finding one?

 

We recently had something on this in our magazine, and in talking to people in the business, the situation depends. Some people have had wrecks occuring during on-track schools covered, while some companies expressly end coverage as soon as the car gets on track. Call your agent and see what they say.

 

I have called my agent to see what they say - please read above.
I'm trying to find out what other people's agents have told them and to see if any of them expressly permit HPDE activity under their coverage.
If I can find several companies that cover HPDE without a problem, I'll seek them out for a quote.

 

I think those days are long gone!

 

you guys are going to really screw yourselves in the run some of you. If your policy is vauge on HPDEs and YOU decide its covered when they say it not, with a lawyer there is a good chance you can get your car covered if you total. However, be advised that you WILL be dropped and you WILL be black listed in the industry. So when you go to get new insurace, your CLUE report WILL state how where and when you totaled the car. Best of luck paying for coverage after that.

Accept the risks. If you arent willing, dont go.

 

Ok so George has kindly asked me to let you guys in on what I know. The best thing I can tell you is to not be a smartass with insurance. Its a small industry and the key players really bounce from job to job so word gets around. If you think you can out talk your insurance companies lawyers, best of luck. I have a little story for you about that:

A guy bought 25 expensive cigars and had them insured for all perils, fire included. Well he soon called in a claim that all 25 had been lost in 25 small fires. Well according to the policy he had to be paid. So he was. Paid 15,000 like the policy said. Well 2 weeks after he had been paid, there was a knock at his door. He was arrested on 25 counts of arson, went to jail for a year and had to pay 25,000 in fines.

Bottom line is dont be a smartass with insurance, because when you need it, you will be screwed.

What else... Hmm. Oh yea. Dont report accidents that are like 100 dollars above your deductible. Those do qualify as loses and are counted against you. The amount of money paid out is almost NEVER considered. Its just a lose. Could be 100, could be 100,000. Its still a lose.

The best way to keep insurance costs down is with a higher deductible. I like a 1000 dollars because anything that is vital to the car running properly(with reguards to insurance) will almost always be over 1000 in damage. Someone who has seen my front can testify. Its still busted because its about 900 and I dont care to pay it. But the car still runs fine. Higher deductibles can save you bundles.

You guys with motor swaps are walking a fine line. ALL of that stuff should be documented and on file with the insurance company. The car will most likly need to be apprasied. Insuring a Civic DX with an ITR motor sounds great, until you lose it and they dont pay you for the motor...

ALL insurance companys should be PAYING for OEM parts. Thats the point of insurance. To put you back to your finacial status with depreciation.

As for HPDEs... Its a fine line. It may be a school, but what kind of school is it? Its a race school! Its not a learn to drive school. Its a learn to race school. Nothing they teach you on that track is applicable in everyday driving. Some are rewritting their forms to exclude it because people do it alot these days. They dont care if its a school. Its off public roads and you are reaching excessive speeds. 2 things they dont like. Private roads and excessive speeds. You really need to read your policy, make a choice yourself and then speak with your agent about it. If they say its not covered, dont push them on the issue. its not covered. If it is, Id still be REAL careful and drive WITHIN your means. If you fell uncomfortable, pull off and go back out or have the guy pass you.

Anyone have any specific questions?

To give George a straight answer, I really dont know. My dept was VERY small when all things considered. We only had 2 markets to go to and if you didnt fit you were SOL. Our bread and butter is commercial lines really. Our personals book got startd becasue we had guys who worked for our commercial lines ask if we could do their house and car and we said sure, not really knowing what we were getting into. Then it spread to our friends and whatnot. Its still a very upscale insurance company that we use. Expensive, but they have the broadest coverage form in the industry.(We is used to collectivly describe my father's brokerage, not me and the people)

I would be more than willing to read your policies if you like and I can give you answer from the insurance comapny POV and what they say.

EDIT: cause like **** Quarter, I cant spell


[Modified by BDiddy, 10:25 PM 9/27/2002]

 

They'll pay you for it, but much much muuuuch less than it's worth. I had to buy mine back and am selling the aftermarket parts myself in an attempt to get back 85-90% of the money invested in the car. I had all receipts, and comprehensive insurance to cover it all too...

 

That's why I consider myself "self-insured" on my hybrid. The shell is replaceable for much less than it would cost to have it insured. I could go the declared value route, but when the payout comes, you still have no guarantee of getting that declared value. They only agree to pay me what they think it's worth. It's just not worth it. As a result, my biggest (and only) fear is theft. The car is virtually unstealable while at my house... short of bringing a flatbed to drag it away on. The only time I lose sleep about it is when it's parked in a motel lot during an event. At that point I'm risking a total loss. I ball it up at the track, I'm really only risking the shell.

I've been meaning to look into some sort of "paddock insurance" or whatever you call it when you insure a car against theft, but haven't done so yet. The "R" drivers among us are obviously risking much more. Anyone assuming an insurance company will do the "right" thing is a fool. You can't make money in the business if you have a conscience. This fear kept me from tracking a new car a while back and eventually led to the decision to go the hybrid route.

 

My policy states that it excludes any driving at a facility designed for racing whether you their to train, practice or race. It also excludes driving in any speed competition i.e. autox.

I consider myself self insured also I don't take my car anywhere where its going to be left unattend for long periods of time.

I accept the risks if god forbid anything happens, that would suck.