In the quest for more hp and tq, it seems like everyone is going turbo or supercharger. Has anyone hit the 300+ mark by going NA? What does it take( other than $) to hit that mark? Is going forced induction less expensive then NA to get those numbers?

 

turbo is easier. what ppl dont realize is that only about 1/3 of the energy ur motor produces is made into HP. another 3rd is sent our coolent system as heat, and the final 3rd is sent out ur exaust as heat. superchargers r nice but ur limited because ur motor have to do more 'work' to produce the power. turbo's utilize power the ur motor is already making. thats y u can make a better HP to CID ratio. the only way to make 300HP is more displacement

 

Yeah what he said and turbo imo is the way to go but i got 350hp n/a S2K ...... on Nitto Legend haha

 

Not quite the correct percentages or outputs, but general concept is correct, in the fact that your motor is not very efficient.

There is mechanical loss in the transmission & drivetrain, energy loss from chemical to mechanical, loss as heat, etc

Source:
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/...gy_losses.html

Forced Induction works because you are cramming more air and more fuel into the motor resulting in more combustion. A turbo takes advantage of the escaping gas from the combustion to spin up and force more air into the IM. A supercharger uses a pulley to achieve the same effect.

There doesn't seem to be many people doing mild NA builds and getting 300hp. The easiest and cheapest way from what I've researched is just to bite the bullet and go forced induction.

 

theyre all right.......im in the process of boosting....hope all goes well man

 

I agree with everybodies post in that power is a lot easier to achieve via force induction BUT I suggest that if you don't plan to spend time and money on mildly building at least the bottom end of your motor that you go with a good fuel management system. Well, fuel management is a must if you go force induction IMO regardless. And/or you can go with a good nitrous system depending on your prefreneces. In the long run you get what you pay for because boosting an
s2000 or building it for all motor is expensive either route way you go.

 

the power is made in the head , not the block so displacement isnt THAT big of a determining factor , fully build the head of your motor i mean 3 angle valve job port n polish thinner headgasket cams valves springs and retainers should put you right around 300hp provided you have the supporting fuel/cooling mods

 

300whp or 300bhp?

Big difference there.

 

What did you do to get to 350?

 

Displacement is everything when you want all motor horse. Do you know the flow rate on the F20 head? The head flows a great amount of air so building the head wont make to big of a dif.


hahah I tried that game for 10 minutes and gave up


on Nitto Legend

 

on Nitto Legend


Oh... LOL!!! I see!

 

u should be embarrased of this post... :shakes head:

 

building a 4 cylinder daily driver NA is a waste of time/energy/ and espically money.

generally NA 4 cylinder street engine that are put street daily drivers cars that must run pump gas is going to be slow!!!

Your not going to get 300whp out of your NA s2000 unless you want to blow a hell of a lot of money. Like bore and stroke it to a 2.5L +, run some insane high compression, run race gas, and some crazy unstreetable cams. And even after all that the tq will still suck and still the car really wont be that fast.

 

a built head + 2.7L like the inlinePRO guys might get you near 300whp.. but you're seriously talking about adding roughly 50% more power to an already efficient motor.. It's going to be tough and its going to cost a lot of money.

I think:
custom stroker kit
light rods
high compression pistons (as light as possible)
90mm bore

ported head
valves/valvesprings/retainers
+cams that rev out super far

I think if you revved out to 9k on a stroked motor with cams that can make power that high you would come close to the goal, but then it's not practical anymore. And all that work for a street car that'll get spanked by someone who just put a snail or blower on.

edit: I forgot to mention that I meant the above on pump gas

 

^ you just said everything that should have been said in the first place

 

im sure everyone that responded was thinking along similar lines. NA is no joke lol.. if I ever built an NA car I would focus on weight reduction more than power. I'm cheap

 

I can see the point of forced induction now, yeah...a better solution. Its crazy what you can achieve with a turbo,Like this friggin car! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFFudEJnjk LOL! So more people opt for the turbo than the supercharger?

 

Remember that horsepower = (torque * RPM) / 5252 and that torque is generally limited by the amount of fuel:air mixture that you can cram into the engine at one time. Thus, assuming a standard F20C1 making 153 lb-ft @ 7,500 RPM, you would need to sustain that peak torque number all the way to a minimum of 10,300 RPM to make 300hp at the flywheel. Shifting the torque curve 3000 RPM higher in an already-peaky engine is much easier said than done. To reduce the amount of revs needed to make that power, you can make minor gains in the peak torque number at the same time by upping the displacement - but keep in mind that increasing the stroke introduces a lot more stress into the bottom end which poses a problem when increasing the rev limit. You're going to end up using a lot of high-dollar components to get there, and long-tem reliability can be rather questionable.

In conclusion, you're going to spend a LOT less money by choosing the forced induction route - hence why it is more popular.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRgxS...om=PL&index=16http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c49McBCqFNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPN9r...eature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQcLY...eature=related

 

Right on the money.

Imagine it as a yoyo being swung in the air like a helicopter propeller. The normal stroke of an S2k and normal bore would be similar to a normal yoyo. making the string longer, or making the yoyo heavier would be stroking and boring respectively. It's more abuse/wear, and its also more boom (added displacement) which isn't exactly helpful to the longevity of the motor. That's why I mentioned light rods/internal parts, if you want your motor to stay in one piece for awhile, you'll get the lightest parts available. If I was to take on a build like this, I'd definitely get the bearings perfect and have everything balanced before hand. I'd also expect less than 50k miles out of it. I know that there's no "time-limit" on motors, but if it was me I'd just expect something to go wrong sooner than later.

 

force induction is easier and will save you some money

 

That's exactly what I said when I read this reply. This guys obviuously doesn't know what he's talking about. I only post stuff I've experience first hand. First time I went turbo with a stock bottom end I ended up without a car for a month that is until I went with a fully built, balanced, and blue printed bottom end never had problems with it at all after that. I guess in short the s2000 is a bad *** honda but not the cheapest to make fast.

 

Hytech cams, NA Headers, test pipe, exhaust, ITB's equals 260 rwhp on the stock 2.2L.

 

^What was it tuned on? What header? what exhaust? and who tuned it has a big roll.

 

Hytech NA 2010 New Design Header, Twin Loop Exhaust, not sure the rest. Can't find the thread on S2KI.