Hi, some already follow my tread about my B22 and they know that i do have problemes to get the top end power clamed from the Crower 62404 on my B20 stroked 97mm.
I would like to hear some sujections that could help me to find out my probleme.
But there is some points that i wont change that i know they are good.
Dont want to hear that the built is to big for the 404. i will answer that B20 on 403 peak hp at 7000-7500rpm... not a .2L on bigger cams will brake the law.
11.5:1 CR is more than a type R, and the 404 are not need more.
I know how to built a motor. i unfortunately just cant tune them
for those that can help and want to. you can find the tread here:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/my-nonvtec-b22b-frankenstein-2658830/

Problemes points are. :
1: TQ drop to fast by 1000rpm
2: no gains swaping bigger headers
3: peak hp usualy @7700rpm, currently 6200
4: drastic tq lost at 7400rpm 25fpt/100rpm ( like cams end up)
5: 2 differents tuners get different top end power same day ( 5 minute delay)
6: my peak hp are at the same rpm that i did on stock cams..

 

CAMSHAFT SPECIFICATIONS:
http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/...404-2&x=31&y=4

 

when you go from a 89mm stroke to a 97mm stroke its normal that your max rev is lower.I still think that you will find you problem soon.

 

good luck i had the same problem with my k series

 

this is not a fact
A B16a on B16a cams will peak tq@6900-7100rpm and on a B20 the same... B16b type R cams dont peak HP@10500rpm. but B20 on type R cams peak hp@7700rpm... all vtec cams. Si-R, GSR ans type R cams peak HP around 7600 and 7800 depend on headers, intake, CR... on right tuning tuning.
B20 on 403 peak hp at 7000-7500rpm... not a .2L on bigger cams will brake the law.

 

have you resolve the problem ?
What was the problem ?

 

you make no sense..
ctr's dont peak power at 10.5k.

longer the stroker,the lower you have to rev, this is infact a FACT unless you have some crazy cam.

 

Increasing stroke DO lower the peak torque range.

I'd say lot's of factors are holding you back but you are not seeing it because your always comparing different motor builds to try to source one answer for your particular setup.


Your torque is dropping suddenly due to various factors, that combined can cause this drop.


I'd say your IM is REALLY holding you back, and so does your small TBI... I saw improvement going form a 62mm tb to a 65mm tb on a very simples 176whp build, so you should see much more on such a big build.

For me, the amazing low end torque you're having, is a result of high air velocity, but when it comes to air volume, it won't flow enough.


Try a bigger plennum, shorter runners, and 68ish mm TB.

It should take you some low end torque and put it in the place you want.

 

Every time that we want to help you with a positive answer you dont even think about what...


This is the last answer you will ever have from me.

 

Crower probs? No way......
Unpossible....
Why do people still use their garbage.....I don't care if it was father or son BTW.

 

we all know that Type r cams dont peak at 10500rpm even on small B16 it dose at 7700 on B16 or B20... the never lost 1500rpm in peak RPM...
this is what i mean.

 

Dont tink i did not tink about it.
You also said that i will resolve my probleme soon.
so you also find that my peak hp is to low ???
i did built B20 and B16vtec on type R cams and the only ting i find is that the b16 will still make power after 8500rpm against the B20 but the peak is not 1500rpm lower on the b20... i did make some test already that coast me money. i cant make all the test people tell me.
But dont worry. i do tink about avery coments.
dont you tink the biggest head flow should make compensation for the bigger bloc
Head flow increasement 15% from p-75
motor cc increasement 16% from b18
Swaping headers have not done the inspected...

 

so you would go for the CRANE non vtec... ?

 

I think my type R IM is a good part at least to peak hp at 7700 even if its not the best hp.
but im scared about the real drop at 7500rpm that is kind of cams end... if the timing is not resolving some power on top end, then i really will think that, i need bigger cams.
Im not looking to bring mote tq around where i peak my hp now.
i (was) really tinking that they could rev at least 8200rpm.
But now im far from hitting 8200rpm.
if they cant peak HP at least 1200rpm higher than my stock cams, and holding power till 1200rpm. higher than my stock b18b cams... its just CRAZY THING..

 

an improperly tuned engine will NOT BEHAVE LIKE IT SHOULD.... unless its a mechanical problem...

 

I agree.
the tuning (intake. throttle. headers. CR etch. set up) is all to create hp at 7500-7800rpm.
now i cant do anything else that, have some tuner tune it. but if the cams are really the probleme, nobody will increasing the power by much.
if i install bigger cams. all the set up will stay as is and we are going to se the hp peak raise to 7800rpm as i want it.

 

as people have said a million times, but you refuse to believe, your intake manifold/tb setup is too small. you have a manifold made for a 1.8L motor.

 

If they make power....Sure!

I see Crower dynos over and over and their results are below average at best.

 

x2401589235

 

x3

 

Ok, swaping intake and TB.. redyno the motor. if no gains...
Who gonna pay that IM and TB ??? its about 800$
I already pay swaping a to small headers..
WHERE DO I GO ON 1 3/4 HEADERS ??? some have said.
But 0 gains... LOST on 2 1/2 headers... That was so nice !!
that also show that we lost velocity at top end...
I said i dont want get more hp at 6700rpm. i want it to be at 7700rpm.. i dont want a little change. its a major probleme here.
i dont know how you think its working. but what ever the intake manif.
if the cams are still having some juce at 7700rpm. it would be noticable,
if i swap an Si-R im. i will still have some power at 7500rpm. but lower.
but still making power.

So you are saying that, if swaping Si-R IM, Then i will have to cut off 7000rpm against 7500??
If i can't at lest, bring back some power in the 7700rpm range. All the work to get a better top end is useless.
i first want the motor to show some ability to keep power after 7500rpm... or, I will HAVE to buy some bigger cams.
No shorter IM will bring more air at 6500-7000rpm ( my currently power band )... maybe at 8500rpm it will... But i dont go there. think about it also...
its not that i cant help some people also.

I do have a probleme with this one... or i have been fooled by the 404 spec.
What ever,
I dont want nobody to get frustrate or get mad cuz i cant make all the tests i heard.
in the futur we will see what is goint to happen, and everyone will learn from it.
Respect, to all of you

 

Maybe i'm wrong here but if your intake manifold is to small like some have mentioned wouldn't that relate to the exhaust side also? As in the header switches you have made that you say lost power would be effected by your small intake manifold.

If you can't get more air in then how could you get more air out. correct?

 

Correct...
But the first choke point to change was the headers one. with the 1 3/4" choke.
but Im really looking to sale the 404's and get some custom cams.
So thanks to all.
im not really looking to find really more power from the 404 anymore.
i will have the motor tune again (Hondata Mike from Laminar) cuz of the new headers and cuz the eCtune guy did not make a nice power band.
but the motor is better on the eCtune when its time to go shoping...

 

Look for a used Victor X and try it on your 62mm TB.

If you see gains, then move to a bigger TB, if not, you can easily resell it

 

is the same Vector X will fite also Vtec head ???
wather pass