Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
06-19-2010, 10:27 AM
#51
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
A SKUNK2 pro is really looking as the same size.
nothing so different that could change big things.
06-19-2010, 10:33 AM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
thats all i can tell
08-25-2010, 03:24 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
So for the interested, My B20S NonVtec was tuned on 23Degree in Low map. 
and the tuner was adding timing to the HY map trying to raise the Timing.
So this is why i did great till 5200rpm, But 23 degree was lack of timing any higher then that.
It wont happen twice. I do my own tuning since
and the tuner was adding timing to the HY map trying to raise the Timing.
So this is why i did great till 5200rpm, But 23 degree was lack of timing any higher then that.
It wont happen twice. I do my own tuning since
08-26-2010, 08:10 AM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
08-26-2010, 08:28 AM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I didn't read through your other thread and didn't see any mention of it here, but have you played with the cam settings? A picture of your dyno sheet would help. Its hard enough as it is to read through your English.
If you have a TypeR manifold tho, it is already well known that those peak quite early and don't like making power much above 8k rpm.
If you have a TypeR manifold tho, it is already well known that those peak quite early and don't like making power much above 8k rpm.
08-26-2010, 04:15 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I wont talk more about R intake on my 2.2L.
If there is anything. I will put it back together and i will tune it.
Then we will be able to talk about his power.
Here is the Dyno from the 404's
on 23 degree timing top end 5000-8000rpm
Here is a Proper tuning on a B20 on same cams...
Take a look at his TQ wave from 2500 till 5200,
we got both the same before 5500rpm.
My timing was proper under 5500rpm.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/205-whp-ls-graph-inside-pump-gas-93-oct-2176287/
If there is anything. I will put it back together and i will tune it.
Then we will be able to talk about his power.
Here is the Dyno from the 404's
on 23 degree timing top end 5000-8000rpm
Here is a Proper tuning on a B20 on same cams...
Take a look at his TQ wave from 2500 till 5200,
we got both the same before 5500rpm.
My timing was proper under 5500rpm.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/205-whp-ls-graph-inside-pump-gas-93-oct-2176287/
05-26-2012, 02:02 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I wont talk more about R intake on my 2.2L.
If there is anything. I will put it back together and i will tune it.
Then we will be able to talk about his power.
Here is the Dyno from the 404's
on 23 degree timing top end 5000-8000rpm
Here is a Proper tuning on a B20 on same cams...
Take a look at his TQ wave from 2500 till 5200,
we got both the same before 5500rpm.
My timing was proper under 5500rpm.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2176287
If there is anything. I will put it back together and i will tune it.
Then we will be able to talk about his power.
Here is the Dyno from the 404's
on 23 degree timing top end 5000-8000rpm
Here is a Proper tuning on a B20 on same cams...
Take a look at his TQ wave from 2500 till 5200,
we got both the same before 5500rpm.
My timing was proper under 5500rpm.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2176287
see... this is what i want to say.
05-26-2012, 02:11 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I'm verry sorry for my English,
I told you at the begening
But the reason that im here is to help and show that NonVtec is a good choice of set up.
Its just that they arent built enaught, so as the 2 first guys that try to tune it, They FAIL !
Because it pull at low rpm i feel driving a lill 5.0 lol
I do have a clutch problem now.
i probably domaged the disc installing the tranny alone.
i cant take the gear out from 8K rpm... motor stay engaged
But from 5K rpm its ok...
I told you at the begening
But the reason that im here is to help and show that NonVtec is a good choice of set up.
Its just that they arent built enaught, so as the 2 first guys that try to tune it, They FAIL !
Because it pull at low rpm i feel driving a lill 5.0 lol
I do have a clutch problem now.
i probably domaged the disc installing the tranny alone.
i cant take the gear out from 8K rpm... motor stay engaged
But from 5K rpm its ok...
05-26-2012, 02:26 PM
#61
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
im using 405 on my build and with problems i made 190 making power up to 8,700 in a b20 stock bore you should try them on your build
05-27-2012, 05:59 AM
#62
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I wont talk more about R intake on my 2.2L.
If there is anything. I will put it back together and i will tune it.
Then we will be able to talk about his power.
Here is the Dyno from the 404's
on 23 degree timing top end 5000-8000rpm
Here is a Proper tuning on a B20 on same cams...
Take a look at his TQ wave from 2500 till 5200,
we got both the same before 5500rpm.
My timing was proper under 5500rpm.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2176287
If there is anything. I will put it back together and i will tune it.
Then we will be able to talk about his power.
Here is the Dyno from the 404's
on 23 degree timing top end 5000-8000rpm
Here is a Proper tuning on a B20 on same cams...
Take a look at his TQ wave from 2500 till 5200,
we got both the same before 5500rpm.
My timing was proper under 5500rpm.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2176287
05-30-2012, 08:21 PM
#63
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I tuned it myself.
Now i see no probleme on the built or power band.
It pull over 8200rpm and seem to be around 220Whp.
ill resolve my clutch probleme and will have some numbers soon.
Dynos numbers and track E.T. and MPH trap speed at 2550 pounds Integra
Believe me, The 404 cams are not to small to rev that 2.2L over 8KRpm, as some people claim.
And will see how much Whp Type R Intake Maniff and 62MM throttlebody can give to the built.
06-04-2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
Increasing stroke DO lower the peak torque range.
I'd say lot's of factors are holding you back but you are not seeing it because your always comparing different motor builds to try to source one answer for your particular setup.
Your torque is dropping suddenly due to various factors, that combined can cause this drop.
I'd say your IM is REALLY holding you back, and so does your small TBI... I saw improvement going form a 62mm tb to a 65mm tb on a very simples 176whp build, so you should see much more on such a big build.
For me, the amazing low end torque you're having, is a result of high air velocity, but when it comes to air volume, it won't flow enough.
Try a bigger plennum, shorter runners, and 68ish mm TB.
It should take you some low end torque and put it in the place you want.
I'd say lot's of factors are holding you back but you are not seeing it because your always comparing different motor builds to try to source one answer for your particular setup.
Your torque is dropping suddenly due to various factors, that combined can cause this drop.
I'd say your IM is REALLY holding you back, and so does your small TBI... I saw improvement going form a 62mm tb to a 65mm tb on a very simples 176whp build, so you should see much more on such a big build.
For me, the amazing low end torque you're having, is a result of high air velocity, but when it comes to air volume, it won't flow enough.
Try a bigger plennum, shorter runners, and 68ish mm TB.
It should take you some low end torque and put it in the place you want.
Soon will have answers...But i still keep my mind.
the set up is great to go over 220Whp
I Will have numbers soon
06-06-2012, 07:44 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
So this is the first time i try to tune a motor on the Dyno.
this is not perfect tuned but good work have been done to it.
this is not perfect tuned but good work have been done to it.
06-26-2012, 11:47 AM
#66
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
Here some where claiming that it was normal for a bigger motor to peak lower but i knew that it was'nt tuned properly.
Here is b20 built dyno on 405
1998 B18B block.
Sleeved and bored to 85mm by Dan Benson of Benson Performance Machine.
B20 crank balanced and knife edged by Castillo's Crankshaft.
Crank teflon coated by Import Builders.
Import Builders LS rods.
Import Builders 85mm Wiseco pistons with 2cc dome.
LS P75 head ported by Import Builders.
Rev stock LS size valves.
JG valve springs and retainers.
Crower 405a LS camshafts.
Blox LS intake manifold.
70mm throttle body.
Precision 440cc injectors.
Prototype Racing velocity stack intake.
JDM ITR 4-1 header.
ITR B-pipe-no cat or muffler.
Hondata S300.
Sleeved and bored to 85mm by Dan Benson of Benson Performance Machine.
B20 crank balanced and knife edged by Castillo's Crankshaft.
Crank teflon coated by Import Builders.
Import Builders LS rods.
Import Builders 85mm Wiseco pistons with 2cc dome.
LS P75 head ported by Import Builders.
Rev stock LS size valves.
JG valve springs and retainers.
Crower 405a LS camshafts.
Blox LS intake manifold.
70mm throttle body.
Precision 440cc injectors.
Prototype Racing velocity stack intake.
JDM ITR 4-1 header.
ITR B-pipe-no cat or muffler.
Hondata S300.
06-28-2012, 01:25 PM
#68
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
That was'nt my built
but a comparable dyno..
I see what you mean.
My idear is that,
the Intake runners are short and the low end torque is suffering.
Throttle is big. too big, but we are not all saying the same about: Intake plenium size, Intake runner size and Throttle
H22Vtec have long intake runners that fit the 230degre cams duration @.1mm (Peak Hp 7500rpm)
B18C Type R have shorter intake runners that fit the 240degre @.1mm ( Peak HP 7800rpm)
CROWER 404 226degre cams duration @1mm
So i decided to go on Type R IM. that one use to peak HP lill higher that my 404's want to.
I was trying to extend the power on intake velocity and acoustic raisonance.
The people that recomand me to go on bigger throttle body and shorter intake are good people trying to give a hand, but before give a hand to someone, please get your hand wash.
If i had the 405 cams, i would also stay on the Type R IM and 62mm Throttle.
in my book, this IM+TB combo is good enough to do 250Whp@8000rpm (using a Kind of Toda A Cams)
In a futur built, i will go with GSR ported IM and 62mm TB on TodaB cams.
once its ported, the GSR IM get really shorter runners@stock size, and tapered as funnel.
Technical and opignons. lol
but a comparable dyno..
I see what you mean.
My idear is that,
the Intake runners are short and the low end torque is suffering.
Throttle is big. too big, but we are not all saying the same about: Intake plenium size, Intake runner size and Throttle
H22Vtec have long intake runners that fit the 230degre cams duration @.1mm (Peak Hp 7500rpm)
B18C Type R have shorter intake runners that fit the 240degre @.1mm ( Peak HP 7800rpm)
CROWER 404 226degre cams duration @1mm
So i decided to go on Type R IM. that one use to peak HP lill higher that my 404's want to.
I was trying to extend the power on intake velocity and acoustic raisonance.
The people that recomand me to go on bigger throttle body and shorter intake are good people trying to give a hand, but before give a hand to someone, please get your hand wash.
If i had the 405 cams, i would also stay on the Type R IM and 62mm Throttle.
in my book, this IM+TB combo is good enough to do 250Whp@8000rpm (using a Kind of Toda A Cams)
In a futur built, i will go with GSR ported IM and 62mm TB on TodaB cams.
once its ported, the GSR IM get really shorter runners@stock size, and tapered as funnel.
Technical and opignons. lol
06-28-2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
06-28-2012, 02:12 PM
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Re: Top end Problemes tuning my B22b on Crower 404
I understand acoustic wave theory, but even if that engine above was hitting multiple modes it shouldn't sweep that wildly. Maybe I'm missing something, do I normally look at torque plots in log scale?
No... The torque shouldn't even vary enough to make that relevant. Something strange is happening there.
To stay on topic with your thread though, I'm trying to build a database of standard b series IM runner geometries and plenum volumes. I'm toying around with the idea of using a b16 or itr manifold, cutting the flange off of it and a spare p75 mani, and combining them to mount on my p8r. I just need to do some math to see where I want to be before I waste two perfectly good manifolds.
No... The torque shouldn't even vary enough to make that relevant. Something strange is happening there.
To stay on topic with your thread though, I'm trying to build a database of standard b series IM runner geometries and plenum volumes. I'm toying around with the idea of using a b16 or itr manifold, cutting the flange off of it and a spare p75 mani, and combining them to mount on my p8r. I just need to do some math to see where I want to be before I waste two perfectly good manifolds.
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