Quinn brought us his B20 VTEC CRX for a Crome Gold tune.

The car came to us with a street tune on an VAFC. The base ignition timing had been advanced until the distributor was locked out, and the AFR's were dangerously lean.

Here is the setup:

B20B Block
12:1 Pistons
Eagle Rods

GSR head
Blox intake manifold
Type R cams

DC Header
Stock Cat
2 1/2 Exhaust

Tuned on Crome Gold

Here is the tuned chart and the "street tune" chart.



Plans are to switch to a Bisimoto Header through us and retune on E85.

 

Spent, what are the numbers relative to SAE? IMO, it looks like the owners exhaust is definitely limiting power.

 

That thing is begging for some cams, larger cat, and as you mentioned, better header

 

Let that bad boy breathe. I bet with some part adjustments thats a 200whp build.

 

SAE are minus 5 on both whp and torque.

 

 

Did you have any crank case ventilation?

 

It wasn't an issue.

Usually, it's an issue when either the dip stick pop's out or you can actually see oil mist race out of the crank case vent. There was none of that in this setup.

Regardless, you bring up a good subject. There might be an extra 2 or 3 whp with the right ventilated catch can tapped into the valve cover.

 

Im curious to see this dyno'd open header for a power comparison. A nicer header and open exhaust will probably benefit it as much as a cam upgrade at this point. Even with cams it may still not make the best power because its not flowing freely.

Any cam timing adjusted on this or just stock gears?
What is the ignition timing?

 

Stock cam gears.

It's hard to answer your timing question since the timing changes every 400 or so rpms per "X" load.

 

I meant timing that was set at an idle from TDC. How many degrees was it advanced? I think a mix of cam timing+ignition timing with the setup listed right there would get closer to 195ish whp. A better header and exhaust would make 200whp+. then from there it would only get better with cams and whatnot.

 

Honestly, I don't recall what base timing was. Base timing makes little difference in this case since we are able to advance or retard away timing via Crome Gold. Ignition values are already optimized an no more could safely be squeezed out. I agree, cam gears may squeeze some more out of it, along with the bisi header, E85, etc. Should be fun.

 

I have never heard of crome gold and didnt know timing adjustment was a feature within the program itself. thats pretty sick, ill have to read up on it. ive always used crome pro.

Post up again after the part upgrades please
also pushing for a dyno comparison between premium vs e85

 

Cool deal.
We will definitely post up after the upgrades.
Not a bad idea to do a comparo vs E85. I think we may just do that if time permits.

On a different note, I just finished installing a 2nd fuel fuel pump on my setup. We'll be doing a 24psi pump gas vs 24psi E85 on a built K20z1 w/ full-race GT35R within the next couple of weeks when I'm able to get a brake from tuning. Should be fun as well, and informative.

 

damn some big numbers coming on that dyno in the next week. looking at 600+whp there more then likely.

 

Care to share the bin?

 

Most tuning systems allow you to custome tune the timing maps along with the fuel maps. That's why tuning systems add so much more power and reliability over someone running a stock ecu with a FPR added.

 

crome pro / gold 1.5.4+ have ign fixes now. And allow you do everything

Cromepro / eCtune / Neptune are all great programs.

 

the only reason crome should be grouped with ectune and neptune is to recognize it as a OBD1 editor. both programs are out of cromes league.
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VAPOR GENIE REVIEW

 

^ Explain exactly how Crome is out of "the league" or your comment is baseless.

 

my comment is based on years of using all the honda based engine managements and realizing how far behind crome is, how little support is offered, and how people including myself make the same comments after moving to programs like ectune and neptune which are roughly the same price as crome (unless being done by a tuner in which case is still only 100 dollars) to get setup with full emulation and logging. Why do you think so many tuners dropped crome off their list of goodie programs to use on customer cars?

its windows 2000 to windows xp. will both work? sure. are they equal? not at all.
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HONDA ACCORD HYBRID

 

So if some jump off a bridge then I should as well? Nothing against the other 2 platforms which by me, are great platforms as well but you are still speaking in general terms. Give specific technical facts or your comment is baseless. You state on your site that you've been working with the general version (Crome Pro) and not the dealer version (Crome Gold). Crome Pro may be "$100 or whatever" but Crome Gold certainly isn't. If you're going to make a comparison, use apples to apples.

 

you can call it all you want and you can tune crome all you want. Doesnt bring my trust back. I have refused crome work for the last 2 years now. Last time i used it was on a friends car (he was tuning) and nothing happened even from a 17* timing retard. what if i was on the dyno and the engine detonated and i took out 3 degrees thinking it actually did what it was supposed to do, yet next pull the engine blows up? How do i explain that to a customer? I'd rather not take the chance. People say that is fixed but what about other potential problems that wont surface until its too late? I cant trust it. And if i cant trust it, i for damn sure will not let a customer pay for my tuning on it.

this is just my opinion and i just happen to know there are many other very established tuners who feel the exact way i do. There is no point in using crome or crome gold when i have paid to be a tuner for ectune and neptune which are on another level than crome. Full tech support goes a long long way.
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Extreme Q Vaporizer

 

I'm sure there are tuners that feel the same as you do. Just like there are those that use Crome Gold on a daily basis and put out proven results.

Let's assume that Crome Gold can't retard timing. Apparently you took that risk quite a few times according to the charts on your site. Why not refuse Crome work back then and demand something else or Hondata? Nothing against you or the choices you make but please, spare me the cynicism. Regardless, how do you explain the smoothness of this chart with smoothing set at 3? As a tuner, I'm sure you know what pre-detonation looks like on a chart and you surely know that this chart can easily pass for a smoothing of 5.



This customer was tuned the same day as Jesus. Direct link to the thread: https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/b18c-60-trim-garrett-e85-dyno-tune-422-whp-294-wtq-2731601/

 

i never said anything about your tuning or whether crome hasd the capacity to allow an engine to make power. i am stating my own opinions through my own experiences and the experience of others in their trials and tribulations of trying to get crome to do what it says it does. You can interpret my opinions as you want. the cars i used crome with were low powered little street cars and im sure you know how large that window of error is with them.

I'm not calling you anything for using crome. Just stating my opinions. Not all opinions are going to be something you want to hear, as that is life.

I will never be a hondata dealer or support them and i will do my best to steer any customer that comes to me with hondata away from it to the systems i use. Hondata is a great great software, like neptune and ectune. But as a company, they can stick it where the sun doesnt shine.

At least you got the guy away from the vafc......unfortunately some people have to learn the hard way.
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TOYOTA P ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS