I'm overhauling all the bushings in my DC2, and I'm thinking I'll get PIC hard rubber bushings. PIC also makes affordable LCAs with quality hard rubber bushings preinstalled, and the idea of getting LCAs and not having to press 6 bushings in and out of the stock LCAs is very tempting. But I have a few questions:

1) The Blox and PIC style LCAs have only one sway bar endlink mounting point, located in the middle of the LCA. SK2 and F7 LCAs have a trio of mounting points, located in the top. Is there a disadvantage to the Blox/PIC design? The sway bar will be an ITR mounted on an ASR brace.

2) I've heard Blox LCAs can be trouble to install -- will the PIC bolt up with stock hardware?

3) Anyone have experience with PIC hard rubber bushings? Are they reliable like Hardrace and OEM?

Thanks. I tried searching, but 'PIC' is tough to search for -- just got lots of LCA pics, which people are fond of posting.

 

Blox LCA's have the sway bar mounting hole in the wrong location and the bushings suck. I have no experience with PIC lca's so I can't comment on them. Skunk2 and F7 have them in the correct location. I have heard cases of Skunk2 bushings crapping out after a year although in my personal experience that didn't happen to the set I owned for about 2 years (sold car). F7 uses Energy suspension bushings, even though they don't last forever F7 warranties them forever.

 

The PIC LCAs sell for only $100, but they have PICs hard rubber bushings, which I believe are higher quality than the Blox and Skunk2 bushings. The only reason I would get the LCAs is to save myself the trouble of having to press 6 broken bushings out of my OE arms and having to press in six new bushings. I figure getting LCAs willl save either a lot of my time or shop time on the press and might pay for themselves. I wouldn't get SK2 or Blox because of the poor bushings, and I don't want to pay for F7 (or wind up with poly bushings). I just want to know if the PIC LCAs themselves are decent pieces and worth the $$, or if I should just stick with the stock LCAs and have a little more pressing to do.

 

Yes, they are worth it if you're looking for ease and a little weight reduction. If you were doing the pressing yourself you might just consider reusing the stock arms to save money but you won't go wrong with the PIC arms. You're right about the bushings being much higher quality than the others you mentioned.

There's nothing wrong with only 1 sway bar mount point but it limits the amount of tuning you can do with your rear sway bar. If you didn't plan on switching up your sway bar stiffness settings from day to day or track to track then I wouldn't be too concerned. In fact, it would be like using your stock arm with upgraded bushings. Function 7 makes a great product so you wouldn't make a wrong decision with either one.

I've never had a problem or heard of a problem installing the PIC arms. They should bolt up like factory unless something under your car (damage/bent) prohibits it.

Yes the bushings are reliable like Hardrace. I've used both so I can speak plainly about it and not give you a "I heard from some dude's guy's cousin who said his car rode like it's on rails."

 

Thanks, that's exactly the information I'm looking for. It also confirms other things I've heard about the quality of PIC products. I've asked similar questions to the PIC rep here, so we'll see what he says.

 

You should also ask him if you can use your oem endlinks for your sway bar. I know with the Blox you need to use adjustable endlinks.

 

He said that I need some combination of washers or adjustable endlinks. I gave a detailed description of my setup and am waiting to hear back with specifics. I think I'll get the bushings but am still trying to decide on LCAs, but they aren't worth it if I'm just trading one headache for another.

The real head scratcher is why people keep designing LCAs that won't bolt up correctly with stock endlinks.

 

For my set up now I just run bushings and oem, but I have owned both Skunk2 and F7 if I had to buy another set I would go with F7.

Answer for your question = cookie cutter, cheap and easy $$.

 

You could also consider getting a brand new set of OEM arms which include new factory bushings already pressed in place. You van get a set for about 130 or 140 dollars. Then you have all the time in the world to find the lowest price to press the hard rubber bushings in the old arms.

 

Hey Gagnar, were you able to find anyplace that actually has the PIC arms in stock?

When I was looking for them nobody had them in stock.

They had the coilovers, except they didn't have the control arms.

By the way, cool name.

 

LOL, thanks. I've been talking directly to Al (ID: 'PIC Performance'), and he hasn't mentioned anything about being out of stock. He has been super-helpful, BTW, and has been answering all my pestering pm's really quickly.

If the PIC LCA's don't work out I'll probably just skip it and reuse my stock LCAs. My LCAs are still fine, they just need new bushings. I was sort of excited about not having to press any rear LCA bushings, but if I'm honest with myself the tipping point was the 'bling' factor of aftermarket LCAs. Without that enticement, I'll just relegate myself to reusing the old LCAs and spending extra time in the garage.

I'm hoping I can rent a press and not have to take anything in to get pressing done.

 

i think this is the best idea if you dont own a press. bushing are like $20-25 (and never in stock) plus whatever a shop will charge to press them. in the end its probably cheaper/easier to buy the oem LCA with bushing installed.

i just replaced my rear strut bushings yesterday. $50 for bushings and $40 to press them.

 

Damn, you're getting ripped off! Buying a new OE arm won't be cheaper that bushings+pressing even at the rate you paid.

 

i know i can get the bushing cheaper, i saw them for $17 on hondapartsunlimited but unfortunately i needed them same day and had to get them at two different dealerships. one was $23 and the other was $28. i did probably over pay for the pressing but again needed it asap so i couldnt shop around.

even still $150 for a pair of oem arms or $17 x 6 = $102 + shipping + pressing, your gonna be right around $150. new lca's just seems like an easier process

 

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

My trouble is that I need to replace all the bushings, not just the rear lower LCA bushings. Since I've got to get my front arms pressed, and have to deal with the compensator and trailing arms (20 bushings), I figured I might as well just throw the six LCA bushings onto the pile.

I can get all 26 suspension bushings shipped from PIC or Hardrace for $225-250. OEM LCA's are $140, and I'd still have to buy the 20 other bushings. I know PIC won't split them up and I don't know about Hardrace, and new OEM bushings are $$$. I was thinking that rather than spend $200 to have them pressed I would DIY it by renting a press (if possible). Do you still think it would be worth it to buy all new OEM LCAs?

 

If the arms have the swaybar end link hole in the middle of the arm for a DC Integra or EG Civic, then they are junk. The correct location is near the top of the arm like stock. IMHO stock endlinks are far superior and will last longer than those wimpy adjustable links. The way those are designed puts TONS more stress on the heim joints and bolts than on the connections of the OEM end links.

 

hmm, guess i didnt realize you were buying a bushing kit. in that case you probably wouldnt want to buy new lca's. good luck with the rental, do you think a local auto parts store will have one available or are you going to look elsewhere?

 

@ PatrickGSR -- yeah, I was developing the impression that that style design creates nothing but trouble. It's bizarre to me that anyone would consider produces a suspension piece with incorrect geometry, especially a company like PIC that has a good reputation. Now everybody is copying Blox! These are strange days.

@ dpetro1 -- we'll see whether I can find one for rent. I thought I'd try some of the tool repair shops in town to see if they can rent me a piece. I also thought Home Depot and Lowes would be worth a shot. There is also a tool library in town that lets people borrow tools for an annual membership fee. I don't really want to spend the money and garage space buying one of my own.

 

If you need new bushings give me a PM. I have a box of new genuine Honda bushings (just the two end ones, not the center shock one) that we have lying around form our earlier R&D.

-A

 

Search these folks for adjustable endlinks. www.powergridinc.com

They do not make the super short endlinks that come with some honda products. These are made for folks who race by folks who race; there is no weight to be saved but the adjustment and durability of the ball joint type ends is super...I put nearly 200,000 miles on a set of four.

Regarding rod end designs, as Patrick above noted, some of these are crap. If you happen to find a set that are indeed made to last you must know how much articulation is required from your particular application. From memory, rod ends posses about 28 degrees of total articulation and the ball joint type posses about 53 degrees. I am not familiar with the newest civic Mac Strut layout but if the swaybar endlink attached to the strut body this is the way to go. I do know Powergrid does not make an endlink for 96-2000 SLA setups.

The 200,000 miles was a combination of track and daily commuting on crappy, snowy salt covered roads in the north east. Although I was not driving a honda the setup was fairly aggressive. Powergrid make a great product from where I sit

 

Interesting stuff there. Looks like high quality. Pretty expensive, though. Costs more for a pair of those than the cost of the ITR sway bar itself.

I made a drawing one time of what I feel would be an ideal adjustable end link design for these mid-90's Hondas using an ITR bar. It was more of a "stock" design using a heim-type joint at the bottom to connect to the LCA and a "fork" design with a through-bolt to capture the sway bar end bushing, just like the stock end links do. Unfortunately I can't find the drawing at the moment.