how strong is the f23a1 crank and the block? can it do 400-450whp with out sleeving with good tuning? also how strong are the 98 accord 5speed trannies? i may have come across a good deal on a wrecked car that i can use to pull motor/trans for my wife's civic hatchback. like $500. i have a nice t3/t04r turbo to put on it. for the price i could save the extra money from not buying a gsr swap and use it toward the pistons, rods, and tuning for the turbo.

 

also i was wonder if (with the correct rod) if you could use an off the shelf k20 pistons. they have the same bore size. whats the stock deck height of the k23?

 

You are good on the crank (forged) and the sleeves have been known to handle your power goal. It can depend on what else you are doing (boring them, etc.) but with a good tune you could probably make it happen. Check out the Forced Induction forum if you haven't already and I'm pretty sure I've seen setups on the F23 reach around 500whp on stock sleeves.

The transmission should be alright too. Just obviously check it out before throwing alot of power at it.

 

i just got word of the deal on the motor so i am trying to research things now. i need to find the deck height of the block and the head cc's too. it seems like i have read that the f23's are pretty good boost motors because the sleeves are pretty stout stock. i wasn't too sure how strong the trans was i know the k tranies seem to be pretty weak compared to the b's. looking at hondata for tuning.

 

B series trannies are pretty stout. You can get a FtoB adapter, and that would save alot of the headaches with a straight F swap. K20 pistons will work, but you will be upping the compression ratio, which you don't really want in a boosted set-up. I want to say there is also some issue with the wrist pins, but I could be wrong. Forget Hondata. You have to switch to obd1 anyways, so you might as well get it chipped and run Crome or Ectune. They have all of the features of Hondata at a fraction of the price. Many tuners are now setting up launch control, which will build boost at 3500 rpm sitting still. Bad ***!!

 

from what i have found so far i could go with a set of wiseco k20 pistons and crower f23 rods. the deck height is the same. the small end width and bore are the same between the k20 rods and f23 rods. hell even the big ends are the same but the length obviously is different. i found a few places that make better valve springs to hold up to the boost pressure. the f2d adapter looked cheaper than the f2b so i will have to look into which one i want.

i like hondata cause its all in-case in one unit. if it were up to me i would figure out how to use my hptuners to do the tuning. but that will never happen. i actually have a ostrich burner i have just never messed with it. seems like a pain to have to remove chips and burn them and put them back in.

it seems like there was a way to install it, and not have to do that. but i forgot where the info was.

 

Chipped ecu's are all self contained. No piggy back BS. The $600 you save on Hondata can go where it counts. If you are comfortable with tuning, check this site out -

http://wikitest.pgmfi.org/twiki/bin/view.pl

These guys are doing amazing stuff. My grasp on pgmfi tuning is fairly limited, but if you have an idea what you are doing, you can probably adapt your skills.

D series trannies are definitely an option. Spend the money on a quality lsd. Stay away from OBX.

Also look at block girdles. The sleeves can shift slightly under high boost and that could cause head gasket failure.

 

K20 pistons and K20 wrist pins fit F23 rods. the valve reliefs on the K20 pistons will need machine work to avoid V2P contact. this is because they need to be flipped around with exhaust reliefs on the intake side. F23 intake valves are 4mm larger than K20 exhaust valve IIRC.

keep in mind with this setup (turbo F2D) in a civic A/C isn't currently an option. there's no room for it... i can't say if p/s is possible. not likely with the lack of room for the extra belt with the F2D kit.

 

im just wondering why aem ecu not being used here? Instead of converting over to obd1. Is price the issue?

 

thanks for the info about the pistons. i'm looking at the dished wisco k20 pistons. 9cc dish so they should be good.

i think i must be missing something on the f2d kit. are there any pics out? whats with the belt and what not?

aem seems to be ok but for the price and little quirks it has its not worth doing. this is what i've been told.

 

i just re-read that... i didn't word it very well..

the combination of the adapter plate thickness and the extra length of the F-series block put it pretty close to the driver's side frame. since the p/s pump runs off of it's own belt that goes on the outermost band of the crank pulley, some intensive frame cutting would be needed to allow p/s to be used. the alternator belt on the inside band is already pretty close to the frame..

borrowed from Bense's build thread (i think he borrowed it as well..!)

 

oh i see........ is it that close with the stock tranny? besides the long gears of the stock trans whats the down sides of it? is it weak or is it just gearing? i think with the turbo and the torque of the f23 the long gears might not be too bad.

 

As far as I know it can be just as stout as the H series trannys. I would personally want to use the F23 trans as well as I prefer the longer gears.

 

It's that tight with a D or B, yes. The down side is the strength. For your power goals, it will be fine as long as you aren't doing high rpm launches with slicks and full throttle shifts. Honda trannies start to fall apart around 400 ft/lbs. Don't get me wrong, you CAN put more power to them, but reliability and use life starts to dwindle after 400.

 

what kept me away from the stock trans was the "complexity" of installing it. it requires custom axles, a mount kit and custom shift linkage. repair parts and clutch are typically more expensive as well.

 

well if i get the whole car for $500 like i was told, then it may be worth it. cause i would have almost everything i need minus axles. this little 2000lb car with that much torque would be a blast. it will have some track time but not a whole lot. no full throttle shifts for sure. i think that big of a motor should spool the t04r pretty fast.

 

i know its a little lengthy, but here is a similar (f23 in a civic hatch) build with some nice results.

btw, SOMD represent!

 

i guess you forgot the link. lol

yeah i'll be in SOMD until about june. then i transfer to florida.

 

i am at work right now. but try looking on u-tube there a some g23 vids that i put up of my ej8 all so i have some up of when it had a f22 on boost in it. i will try to post a link when i get home tonight

 

ha yea here it is

https://honda-tech.com/forums/appearance-build-threads-122/i-want-build-thread-too-1824166/

 

F23 specs

Block:
open deck
deck height - 8.643
bore - 86mm/3.385

Rods:
length - 5.551
width - .780
BE bore - 1.890
Pin bore - .8649-.8654

Pistons:
bore - 86mm/3.385
compression height - 1.181
wrist pin diameter - .866

Crankshaft:
stroke - 97mm/3.818
main journal diameter - 55mm
rod journal diameter - 1.771

Cylinder head:
combustion chamber volume - 50cc
intake valve diameter - 34mm
exhaust valve diameter - 29mm


*information gathered from a thread in the Prelude forum.

 

thanks for the post. i found a compression calculator online that had all the f and h info on one calculator.

 

will a h22a head fit on this motor?

 

Yes. It's called a G23 vtec. It does require some light mods though. Here are links to a couple threads. There are more out there. I suggest reading as many as possible. Each guy finds different (sometimes better/cheaper) ways of doing it.
One of the first from 2004
Good write-up on needed parts

This is actually in my future plans for my 6GA. I am a turbo and a tune away from boosting 10lbs. I will run it like that while collecting parts for the G23v and build it for 20+ lbs.