We have been hard at work continuing the development of the AccessPORT to meet the needs of Honda tuning enthusiasts. We currently have MAP tuning functioning and are working to add an easy way to adjust for larger injectors. This latter part has proven more difficult than we originally anticipated as Honda implements this in a way that is very different from other manufacturers. Injector scaling is coming, even if we have to write our own custom code to implement it on this ECU.

When the MAP update is released, the AccessPORT will have equal table/parameter access between MAF and MAP logic. We have extensive history tuning forced induction via MAF with the Mitsubishi EVO X, Subaru STi, MAZDASPEED3 and Nissan GT-R. It has proven to be the most accurate fuel metering system and is being used in almost all OEM applications. We wish to prove to the Honda enthusiast that you can accurately tune forced induction/cams with MAF just as you can with MAP, and generate more consistent results doing so.

We know you are anxiously awaiting these updates, and we know that our competitor has just announced an exciting new capability. COBB Tuning is dedicated to delivering on our commitment of implementing equal control of MAF/MAP tuning as well as providing the most innovative and interactive tuning solution available for the 8th Gen Civic Si.

 

so maf is better for boost tuning?
because hondata says otherwise.

 

sweet, this means an OS option will be available soon too.

 

I hope to hear more soon!

 

Engine management strategies (fuel, ignition, etc) are all based on the concept of knowing (or calculating) the mass of air entering the engine. For instance, your A/F ratio is in reality the MASS of Air to the MASS of fuel. Many new factory turbocharged cars use target air flow tables now instead of target boost tables due to airflow being a more accurate method for torque management. A MAF based system is more accurate than MAP (Speed Density) for engine management, both forced inducted or NA, due primarily to the fact that a MAF measures the MASS of AIR that is entering the system. A Speed Density, aka MAP, based system must attempt to calculate the mass of air based on Volumetric Efficiency tables and/or other algorithms. At the end of the day, all it can do is assume the air mass but it has no way of really MEASURING it. “Boost” alone is NOT a measurement of airflow, no matter which way you try to spin it.

The ability to accurately measure the mass of air is very critical for transient conditions which are most often experienced during daily driving conditions. Granted, under WOT conditions they can both be very close to the same when properly tuned. However a MAP-based system can never match a MAF in terms of accuracy during transient conditions which directly impact driveability, fuel economy and emissions. The same can be said with regards to environmental changes that affect air density that a MAF-based system can properly compensate for due to the nature of its design. Furthermore, a MAF based system can be considered more responsive in the fact that it's measuring air as it enters the system, before it even gets into the cylinder. A MAP-based system is mostly reactive, adjusting only after cylinder filling has begun. In other words, one knows what's about to happen (MAF) and the other only knows what just happened (MAP).

Perhaps those aspects are not of any concern to some people, but the reality is you can hardly call Speed Density “better” when it lacks these core competencies for accurate engine management. This is why nearly every manufacturer has moved to a MAF-based system as standard, even Honda.

The argument to go with Speed Density is often made for the wrong reasons. Yes, tuning a MAF-based system can be a little more time consuming but often the results are more consistent and driveability superior to a Speed Density system. Yes, you need to have a properly designed intake system that provides laminar airflow across the sensor. Yes, the intake tract must be free of leaks. No, it doesn't have to be a flow restriction if you've properly engineered your MAF housing for the application.

I find arguments against MAF for those (and similar) reasons to be not too unlike the arguments for carburetors over EFI (fuel injection) back in the day. EFI was considered too complex and finicky and a well tuned carburetor was just as effective – particularly when you compared the results side to side under WOT. However, it's now well-accepted in most camps that EFI will net you superior results to a carburetor.

I'm not here to argue that a Speed Density-tuned engine, properly tuned, can't run well. I'm also not here to tell anyone a properly tuned carburetor can't run well, either. However this perception that a MAF system is inferior to a MAP-based system, turbocharged with big cams or otherwise, is inaccurate. It's being promoted by the same type of people that had a hard time putting away their screwdrivers and jets to tune an engine instead of picking up a PC to do the job. Just because it's what your comfortable with doesn't automatically make it “better”.

For the record, we will be supporting both MAP and MAF tuning equally. We are not anti-MAP, and even try to offer MAP based tuning for other cars we support as an option when possible. Both can work very well based on a given application. The point of this post is simply to state some facts about MAF-based systems and to hopefully dispel this belief that they are inferior to MAP.

Cheers,
Trey Cobb / President
COBB Tuning - www.cobbtuning.com

 

Amen... And "dead on ***** accurate"

 

MAF is so awesome, yet you are working on getting MAP (Speed Density) working because your attempts at F/I and injector support on MAF failed.

Interesting.

So when are you guys releasing Live Tuning? Hondata already has it.

 

VitViper,

You tend to post maliciously in our threads, almost as if you have a personal vendetta against COBB Tuning. I'm not sure what we have done to offend you. Perhaps we can discuss offline.

MAF forced induction and injector support certainly have not failed. Injector scaling is the piece that is being developed at the moment and it will work for both MAF and MAP tuning. As posted earlier, it has taken us longer than anticipated. This delay has understandably disappointed quite a few Honda AccessPORT enthusiasts. We are actively working on the solution and it will be available soon.

Gary Sheehan
Marketing

 

I don't think his post was that malicious, he offers up a valid question on the mind of the consumer.

"Why should I choose Cobb AP when Hondata FlashPro is already out?"

 

Fiji,

Posting erroneous information about what we are working on in an attempt to make our efforts look bad could be considered malicious. I'm happy he has found a solution that works very well for him. Our product currently does not meet his needs and we certainly appreciate that.

However, our product does meet the needs of many Honda tuning enthusiasts in its current state, and provides additional functionality over the competitor that many customers value. Carrying all of your maps with you, viewing live data on the screen as it occurs, DTC code reader, performance measurements, configurable shift light, datalogging configuration, map library viewing, etc. are features that make the AccessPORT easy to use and interact with.

Furthermore, we continue to work towards the functionality that VitViper states is lacking in our product. It is coming, it is just taking longer than we anticipated.

Ultimately, the proof is in the results, and promises of results won't satisfy everyone. At the end of the day we need to deliver what we say we are going to. We will.

Gary Sheehan
Marketing

 

Amen..

 

Gary,

Not posting anything malicious, just playing devil's advocate, see this:

Talk to Christian, he'll tell you my remarks are more of a challenge to you than anything else. Hondata has an awesome product, with features that make tuning ANY Si (n/a, s/c, turbo, cams, etc) a breeze. MAF vs MAP is not a selling point and really should not be brought up in these posts. The actual functionality and features of the product are. Posting "that you're working on it" is reminiscent of the "Old Hondata".

 

VitViper,

Point taken. Trust me, we are fired up about Honda and working on it to get it done. Posting that we are "working on it" in our case is true. It certainly won't take us three more years to deliver, that's for sure.

MAF vs. MAP is already a selling point and will be a bigger selling point once the injector scalar is implemented. There are those that prefer MAF over MAP due to the accuracy advantage that MAF has over MAP. However, we will be supporting both equally and AccessPORT owners will have the choice of which method they use to tune.

Gary Sheehan
Marketing

 

I'm all for competition as it's a breeding ground for great things. I've built and tuned a MAF tuned & turbo 4 banger before. MAF may have an advantage in accuracy, but it would not sell a tuning product to me solely because of that one point. I would take MAP over MAF for boost. Or better yet, both working together, MAP under boost and MAF for low load