I'm not a suspension expert in any way and I figure a huge car company like honda,with all their engineers and such know better than I do but it seems like honda suspension is poorly designed.

For one thing the rear trailing arms have rt bushings that are held together by two small rubber wedges that are prone to splitting.

Another problem I see is all the other bushings on the suspension such as on the ones on the control arms.When you tighten the bolts on these bushings they are stuck in place,so when the suspension goes up or down it twists the rubber which eventually breaks it.

I imagine these things make the suspension stiff and that causes you to have a rougher ride.
The only reason I can think of that honda might have made their suspension this way is for better cornering or better responsiveness maybe...

Does anyone have a definite answer of why the suspension is this way?
Also are the polyurethane rt bushings any good?

 

All manufacturers have weird design flaws. Honestly, how would you design a rear trailing arm bushing that wouldn't split? ....uh, put a metal tube in the center and put the shaft part in that...
Cars are designed by engineers that don't work on cars. They make them light, reliable, and cheap to produce. They don't care if you have to pull the whole motor to change spark plugs.

 

just remember. honda wasn't planning on people modding civics to race in 20 years from the day of production. civic's were designed to be economical and reliable. not fast and comfortable.

 

anddddddd this is why there exists a plethora of aftermarket support for Hondas

 

lol

 

To what generation of Civic are you referring to? The 88-00 Civic and the 91-01 Integra have double wishbone suspension set up, regarded as the preferred suspension design. Newer Honda/Acura mostly have macpherson struts and multilink rear suspensions, some regard this a step back though they can be modded to handle well.

 

the old suspension is way better then the stupid rsx setup ! gayest rsx !

 

its just you.

 

Says you, Honda has always been a company focused on racing. Hell, look back on the S600/S800. Sure the first Civic started out has an economy car, then a generation or two later Honda put a twin cam ZC in it and called it the SiR.

If Honda wanted the Civic to be an eco car they wouldn't have given it double wishbone suspension and an independent rear.

 

I've often thought of going with spherical bearings in place of rubber or poly, but wasnt sure how it would be on the street...
Mostly a DD with some auto x and track days thrown in.

But yes, honda suspensions are excellent. These cars handle better than just about any other compact car on the market...then and now.

 

Yea the 88-00 civic and 91-01 integra is what I was referring to.
I didn't mean the double wishbone suspension and all that though,I meant the bushings.
Well are the polyurethane bushings any good?

 

I had energy bushings in my del sol, and it surely made a hell of a difference! And ontop of that, it was the easiest thing to ever install! No press or anything!

 

What kind of a difference did you feel?Smoother ride,better handling?

 

dont waste your time do a search on poly bushings and you will find that they are generally crap unless you want to replace them every year. Just go buy some stockers or a hard rubber kit. You most likely wont even notice a difference either way.

 

what do people think of using spherical's on a DD?
This would eliminate the inherent drawbacks from using rubber....

I am wondering if the ride would be harsher...but and thinking it shouldnt be as it shouldnt transfer up through the springs to the rest of the car...

 

I wouldn't trust spherical bearings to hold up to daily use for very long. I have them in my rear ARB endlinks, and after only 1.5 years (give or take a little) they started making noise, and have a little play in them. Now that I'm at the 2 year mark, they need to be replaced. And the endlinks aren't subjected to anywhere near the same stress as the control arm bushings.

And yes, it would be much harsher. Part of the reason rubber is used is because it can damp vibrations in the very high frequency ranges, which will simply be transfered to the chassis with spherical bearings.

 

Should've stopped there.

Yes, all those engineers at Honda.

 

Yea well if everyone stopped "there" then there would never be any progress.
Besides,even though honda probably knows best there's always the possibility of a company making problems with their product on purpose so things will break,you'll take it to the dealer or buy the parts to fix it and the company can keep making money from the flaws in their product....
So it's always good to ask questions and not accept things just because people expect you to.

 

oh hell no!
OP come on bro! i had a 1989 honda accord SE-i STOCK
w fatt *** sway bars. rear discs n sht STOCK
it out handled SI's and most new honda cars GIVE ME A BREAK!
i aint sayin it handled like a type R or nsx bt u get the point

 

You completely missed the point of what PIC Performance was trying to say with that quote. (btw does that guy work for PIC? he might know a thing or two about suspension)

The OP first said that he's not a suspension expert and that the Honda engineers probably know better than he does. PIC was right--he should've stopped there. Honda's engineers are brilliant, they DO know what they're doing. 88-00 Civic suspension is certainly not poorly designed. How does a K24 EG lap Thunderhill faster than Lancer Evo's in the same class? Brilliant suspension, that's how. (and power to weight ratio and good aero and a good driver, but that's beside the point)

 

the stuff that the OP pointed out is EXACTLY why Honda suspension is SUPERIOR to other OEM's. really, have you checked out other cars of the same time line? most nissans werent even independent rear suspension at the time.

the trailing arm bushing, tho made of rubber and will deteriorate over time, makes that function properly. same with the rubber OEM bushings giving better drive comfort and response in added spring rate.

youre looking at 15-20 year old cars and seeing whats failed first, but its 15-20 years old! bushings are still made of rubber. the technology that honda incorporated in their suspension design, no one else was doing. ie. double wishbone front suspension and so on.

 

:werd: The RTA bushing moves on multiple axis hence it's designed like that; and why poly RTA bushings are not desirable in this location(high chance of them binding).

 

Anyone that ever thinks Honda suspension has fundamental issues, due to the mandatory deformation of some bushings to accommodate suspension motion, has obviously never looked at the front suspension of a B5 or B6 Audi A4. They force both UCA bushings (if you can call them that, as there are 2 "UCAs" per side) into deformation any time the steering wheel is turned. Stupid thing has 4 ball joints on each side up front...

Now, I love driving my girl's A4, but I do NOT look forward to the day that I have to replace those bushings (which is very soon, sadly). The rubber bushings (even the large RTA bushing) on my 91 Integra LS were in better shape after 15 years and 212k miles than the current bushings on her 02 A4 at 100k miles.

 

Engineers are always trying to better whatever is thrown at them. Sure they miss things every now and then, but why would you look down on them fryman. They have to balance comfort, performance, economy, endurance etc. etc. If they wanted to build say a drag car, then they would build a full out drag car, but they would not sell very many. Engineers have to keep price of material, design, and manufacture in mind at all times. In my personal opinion Honda did an excellent job.

 

honda dont listen to its patrons. it just make things on their own and take pride on it. with proper forum and time things will be great. take for instance the body frame of older hondas, they crumple like paper when totalled. but with the 05-up models it has address such issue by installing an elevated frame-brace, although limits your entry, serves a safety purpose during accidents.plus they do away with the heavy nuts bolts and screws in the entire make.

but yes rubber bushing takes it toll on its patrons thats why some prefer toyotas when it comes to suspension maintenance vis-a-vis hondas. a local store would always say re honda suspensions the 96 up sucks.

but man, cant stop loving honda that "little car with a big heart" a car that was made for speed,racing, and fun revvvvving uppp...