06/23/2009 - -
It seems that there's been a little confusion out there regarding the price/value equation between the 2010 Insight and the Prius that I'd like to clear up. Recently, I saw a post claiming the price difference between the two cars equipped "as customers want" is only 700 dollars more for the Prius. This was based on an MSRP of 21,300 for an Insight EX, and of $22,000 for a 2010 Prius II, which currently is the least expensive 2010 Prius available.

According to the Power Information Network (PIN), an affiliate of J.D. Power and Associates, the average transaction price of the 2010 Insight in June* was $21,526, while it was $26,436 for the 2010 Prius. "Average transaction price" is the average price paid for a car, including, transportation charges, options and accessories, but not including taxes or fees. So, in this case Prius buyers are paying $4,910 more for the keys to a Prius equipped "as customers want." Generally speaking, the difference will grow even bigger when sales tax is applied. In the world of entry-level vehicles, hybrids or otherwise, $5000 is a big gap, and while it's inevitable that there will be cross shopping between the two cars, we think this suggests that they will continue to attract different buyers.

Like the numbers above provided by PIN, third-party evaluations are a very helpful tool for car shoppers. All car consumers should research sources like J.D. Power, Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book (kbb.com) to help make the right choice. In the case of the Insight's price, the numbers speak for themselves.

 

I found almost the same thing when shopping between the Prius and the Insight.

My thoughts from another thread:

 

To be fair, the Insight and the Prius are not really in the same class. The Insight is an Eco-Compact, whereas the Prius is an Eco-Midsize.

It is similar to comparing the Civic and the 4cyl Camry, and saying that the Civic is a, "better deal". Technically it is, but its really just incomparable.

 

I guess that maybe it depends on why you are shopping for a hybrid.

I'm not sure we're at a stage where anything matters as much as the cost analysis.

But I understand your point. I just don't think that in 2010 that is how people are shopping. If they were, I think the Hybrid Camry and Hybrid Accord would've sold better.

 

well to begin with hybrids are a bit of a ripoff and will cost more in the end. look at a civic ex and civic hybrid for instance.

Hybrid - $23,800 - combined EPA - 42 MPG
EX - $19,450 - combined EPA - 29 MPG

So that's about $4,400 towards gas in the regular civic. Which is about 51,040 miles. That's pretty much half-life of the vehicle if not already traded-in.

Hybrids are a joke when it comes to buying new to "save" money.

 

My calculations had it at about 53,400 miles

But for what it's worth, there are cases of Civic Hybrid owners who have well over 500,000 miles on their cars.

 

So since the Insight starts at $17,800, does that discredit your anaylsis?

 

I think the better argument exists in not buying a new car...whether its a hybrid or not.

Its never economically viable to purchase a new vehicle when a used civic could be purchased for 4-10k and get 35-40mpg for 200,000+ miles.

The idea that you're somehow saving the environment or saving money is absolutely ridiculous...when you factor in the costs associated with building/buying/maintaining a brand new vehicle.

 

too much factors into the new/used debate. new you get a warranty, you're the first to drive the car, you know it doesn't have problems. buying 4k civics is basically asking to be ready to fix ****. i bought a 3k integra a few years ago. long story short, new engine, trans, axles, bushings, shocks, springs, i can keep going you know. i hate the prius as much as the next guy and agree with what you're saying in theory, just a lot factors into the equation.

 

I think that people buy hybrids now for a variety of reasons, not simply a final, bottom line cost analysis related to fuel economy.

Addressing your concern, however, is important to Honda and the 2010 Insight is designed to make hybrid technology more affordable and more logical.

The 2010 Insight makes a lot more sense than previous generations of any kind of hybrid made by any manufacturer.

 

It also depends what type of driving you will be doing. If you are unfortunate enough to spend a ton of time in slow moving bumper to bumper traffic, then the hybrid will get way better fuel economy. The gasoline engine won't even be running while you slowly inch along the highway.

That is when a hybrid will get way better fuel economy than a regular car which is constantly using gasoline. The same goes for if you spend a ton of time sitting at stop lights. Yes you could also turn off the engine in a regular car while stopped at traffic lights, except nobody does that.

 

Is the new Prius really big enough to be considered a midsize car? It and the Insight seem to be about the same size from a quick glance.

 

The EPA considers it a midsize.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...f.jsp?id=25987

While the Insight is still considered a compact.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008c...f.jsp?id=26366

 

Why do people buy hybrids?

Many I know feel like they are saving the environment...which on the surface seems like a noble reason.

However, when you factor in the collective energy it takes to build/transport/sell/purchase a new vehicle it doesn't make any sense at all.

What am I missing?

 

"I'm saving the environment" is a popular slogan used as a self-reassurance by those individuals who otherwise live boring, petty lives.

 

I bought the new Insight because it has everything I wanted and was less expensive than the equivalent Civic sedans; 4 doors, safe (IIHS 5-star rating - No Civic has this), iPod interface, climate control, easy to drive/comfortable and fuel efficient (I have been averaging 49mpg). It has the exact same cargo room as the Civic sedan (16.9 cubic feet) and is still marginally comfortable for back seat passengers.

I wasn't in the market for a fast or sporty car, because I already have 800whp between two cars to choose from in the garage. And since one of those cars runs on leaded gas half the time, the environment is definately not my reason for buying a hybrid.

You also have to consider resale value too. The Honda dealerships in my area are getting 2-3 Insights every month, versus 30-50 Civic sedans. The expected resale (normalized) for the Insight is 30% higher than a Civic EX in 5 years.

Economically it makes sense.

 

Having driven both (and owning a Prius myself), I can attest the Insight is and feels much smaller.

The backseat has *no* legroom compared to a Prius.

 

Good answer.

You're sacrificing the cost because its going to be a great vehicle. It would be interesting to see what this vehicle is costing you each year between financing and insurance. (assuming you didn't pay cash)

 

I could have paid cash, but decided to finance, only because I can make more money on my cash in my mutual funds and stock portfolio. It basically boils down to $20,000 towards a depreciating asset, or $20,000 towards an average 8.5% gain. Even though I am financing at 3%, if you do the math, I am still making a 5.5% gain on my money.

It is even better on our house, where I have a 30-year mortgage at 4.65%, and my money makes an average of 8.5% outside of the loan, but the asset (a house) is an appreciating asset, so you get a compounding gain (8.5% + 2.5% (avg growth per year in our area) = 11% gain on my money each year

I always thought that financing a depreciating asset (car) is not good, until my Wife (investment banker) explained to me the theory of investment and how you can work them in your favor.

The best trick I’ve learned is you take a cash advance on your credit card when they offer one of those 12-month 0% deals, invest the money, and pay the debt back before the twelve months expires. I walked away with a few hundred dollars last time.

 

While alot of that is true I would never call a car an asset...its more of a liability..

Assets = make you money
Liabilities = cost you money

A personal home is also a liability....unless you charge your kids/family rent....while it may appreciate you have the monthly mortgage, taxes, repairs, maintenance etc...that and the "value" is an estimate and until you sell it for that amount it should remain as a liability.

People can write things down on an expensive paper all they want -- your house is only worth what someone will pay for it...and until they do, its gonna COST you money.

Financial planners say "list your assets" but really short a profitable business, residual income source (rights to music, patents etc..) we really just have a bunch of liabilities that people try to call assets.

Time value of money - people lose sight of how powerful cash is until they dont have any -- then they will pay quite a bit to get their hands on some.

Leverage works both ways --- used wisely its another tool for wealth building -- used incorrectly turns people into slaves to the lender

As far as Hybrids go -- everything at this point is speculation -- what could happen may not happen and given that demand = resale ...why buy a used insight when the BBD hybrid is on lease special for 199mo!

I would lease a hybrid car -- too much is up in the air regarding battery life, motor life, sub systems etc...component relpacment expenses will be very high and whoever buys a used Hybrid may be in for a shocker when they need a new 10K battery pack in their 10K used hybrid purchase. If all OEMs were using the same batteries, motors etc...then cost would be minimal as replacements would be plentiful...since these are very specific and super low volume cost will be very high.

 

More of an FYI, but a complete battery pack for the 2010 Insight is $1,750 and the voltage regulator (most likely component of the IMA to fail) is only $140. These are list prices too, so assume ~20% less for internet specials and buddy hook-up.

Considering they designed this powertrain to be a light maintenance item (first service @ 105,000 miles), the actual maintenance cost of ownership, even if you replace the battery pack and regulator at the first service, is less than a Honda Accord V6 over the first 120,000 miles. Assuming all recommended maintenance is performed.

 

This would be true of 2010 Prius but the 09's are obviously smaller.

Also for 2010 You have 5 levels of Prius. When you equip them similar to the Insight the Honda product is always less money.

The insight handles better, looks better and have a less complicated ($$$) hybrid system that will result in a lower total cost of ownership while being a better value than the Prius 1.

WHen you get in to the $$$ Prius 4/5 demographic its basically yuppies who want to feel better than driving an E350 mercedes but still want all the creature comforts of a 50-60K car.

That and real world testing of drivers with the ECON modes on show the mileage difference to be really really close.

While the size may be bigger a lot of times it doesnt translate into more room....look at the trunk area of an Insight and you will much more cargo room than in a Prius. The Insights battery is much smaller and lower in the chassis.

Honestly I dont see why anyone would want the Prius more than an Insight other than brand loyalty (which is common).

 

While the NMH battery in the Insight is cheap - the Prius uses a substantially more expensive battery (which is why it can go 1/4 mile on electric only power).

Trust me, the Prius pack is NOT cheap.

I only mention it because some people would consider a used Prius instead of an insight thinking a used Hybrid is a steal when in fact that one replacement could double their purchase cost lol.

 

According to Edmunds.com True costs to Own it costs $35917 total to own this car for 5 years.

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2010/hond...l?setzip=90404
True Cost to OwnŽ

Year 1Year 2Year 3Year 4Year 55-yr Total
Depreciation$4,286$2,186$1,922$1,705$1,529$11,628
Taxes & Fees$2,155$145$131$118$107$2,656
Fuel$930$958$987$1,017$1,048$4,940
Maintenance$175$466$299$1,147$1,168$3,255
Repairs$0$0$120$288$423$831
Tax Credit$0$0$0$0$0$0
Financing$1,488$1,202$894$561$204$4,349

Insurance$1,540$1,594$1,650$1,707$1,767$8,258
Yearly Totals$10,574$6,551$6,003$6,543$6,246$35,917

 

I'd like to add to this that the dealership I work at has never replaced a Honda Hybrid System of any kind in any Honda Hybrid in its history due to failure. Only replaced due to collision or theft. Unlike the Toyota Hybrid system the Honda system is very simplistic.