Hello, I just replaced my head, and cleaned my intake, along with new gaskets...Now I am to the tricky part (for me anyway) Timing it...

Ok, So my distributor is pointing toward cylinder #1's button, I also have my engine on TDC...

My question is: When I turn my camshaft sprocket to line the marks up with my head, will it bend my valves? Thats what was wrong with it to start with and I don't want to do it all over again..

Cause the valves will have to open eventually, and the #1 piston is TDC, wouldn't they collide?

It's a 93 EX auto, but the VIN decodes to be a 92. They are the same almost, this model has the f22a6 and Intake Air Bypass solenoid...
External mounted coil, and aggressive camshaft and computer tune (factory, i mean..) Can't wait to run it.

 

dont turn it from the cam, use the crank. should not collide, i assume you have the timing belt on, and also it is in the correct teeth?

 

The way I read it, and correct me if I'm wrong is that you have already installed the head onto the block but have not yet installed the timing belt. correct?

well how far are you saying you have to rotate the cams to line up the marks?

you said the distributor rotor is pointed at #1 so that would indicate that the head is at TDC for cylinder #1 or at least very close to it. which would mean you shouldn't have to rotate it but by 2-3 teeth or something small like that. If so, just rotate the cam to line up the marks and then put the timing belt on since you already have the block set.

 

The book say to line up the two marks on the camshaft sprocket with the head surface, but I don't see the marks...the UP is UP, but dont see the 2 marks to line up with the valve cover meeting surface...


And yeah my balancer shafts and crankshaft are in place, actually need to bring crank back a few teeth for TRUE TDC...i took it too far slightly..


But my main problem atm is I am not seeing the marks to lign up for my camshaft pulley..But as I said...the UP is....UP lol


Is there a trick to keeping everything in place while you put the belt on and tension it? just wonderin it seems difficult for me..

Edit: you have to turn both the cam and crank and get them lined up as well as the balancer shafts @alkohoikwun

 

if the UP is up then you should be fairly close. Look on the face of the TEETH, not the spokes of the gear. Thats where the marks are located.

click the link below and go to Step 12, I show where the alignment marks are at.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/how-replace-timing-belt-timing-balancer-belt-water-pump-f22b1-1908944/

 

Here's where the timing marks are. If you can't see the marks on the photo just imagine that the cam gear is remove and a hack saw blade was used to cut a grove straight across the middle of the gear on both sides.

Hope that makes sense!

 

I found the camshaft sprocket timing marks, lined them up accordingly (lol accord) and kept the UP ....UP....lined up the crankshaft pulley on TDC mark on the block and the pulley (there is one in the auto transmission, but It doesnt seem as accurate...3 lines 1 is red...and there is another line with a T by it....it was by the T- line when i had it on TDC (according to the block mark and the crankshaft mark, AND having a long set of extentions in piston #1 waiting for them to read TDC...) BUT, I tensioned the belts and made sure they all stayed in time (marks lined up, but when I tensioned the belts, and turned it over counter-clockwise 3 times (checked for CAM to line up and for crank to be at TDC at each rotation...) anyway one of the rotations was very close, but it was like 1 tooth or 1 1/2 teeth out of time on the cam when it was on TDC after tensioning and turning the motor...


also a side note, there is a bolt that locks the tensioner, it seems to be stripped out somewhat(what to do about this? i know eventually my timing belt will loosen like this)...but there is still tension on both belts, and as I said...its a tooth or 2 out of time...TDC does not equal cam -- UP --


TDC = _ UP -- or something like that...you know....instead of -- UP --


how do i make sure it stays exactly in time when i tension the belts and turn over the motor? I turned over the motor with a 1/2 ratchet, but with very little force, and there were no abrubt stops, just the holdback from compression strokes...

the lines on the camshaft sprocket are actually below the UP but thats besides the point...


basically all i just said was

I timed it, the marks all lined up..

Tensioned it, the marks lined up..

Turned it, it was 1 or 2 teeth out..

Edit: not positive when i tensioned it if the marks were still lined up...as I had been messing with it for quite a while, and I am sick...so i was tired of fooling with it for today..


Also the ...Oil pump i think it is....has a mark on the outside of the pulley (seems to line up with the mark on the block by it) but there is also a GROOVE in the shaft of the oil pump sprocket, not sure which one to line up...

And...NOT the crank..NOT the cam...Not the oil pump...but the other pulley, it has a DOT on it...not sure where to line it up with either...I was told the oil pump and...what i am referring to, is the water pump, I was told they didnt have to be in mechanical time, that they just did their job...which made sense, except for the MARK and GROOVE on the front one , and the DOT on the rear one...


so its like CAM SPROCKET
OIL PUMP?? (paralell head marks found them) WATER PUMP???
(mark and groove) (DOT) there is a " . " on this sprocket
CRANK
(TDC, found it..)

so when i attempted to time it, i found TDC, lined up the camshaft, the mark on the oil pump, and put the dot on the water pump straight up, well to the best i could anyway...


also...the CAM and CRANK and a tensioner are on one belt...

then the same tensioner, oil pump and water pump are on the other belt...


SORRY i know this is way too much freakin info

 

when you install the timing belt, be sure to leave little to no slack in the belt directly between the cam and the crank (left side of the belt when looking at it from the driver side of the car). By putting the slack on the other part of the belt with the tensioner and water pump (right side) it makes it easier to keep the cam and crank in the correct position when the timing belt is tensioned.

no, the water pump pulley does not need to be timed to anything.

as for the balancer shafts... for the front shaft there is a groove on the shaft, line that up with the mark on the block. for the rear shaft I've always used a bolt or screw driver in the maintenance hole to line it up and hold it in time but others have said there are alignment marks on the pulley to use for alignment.

if you have any questions on anything I've stated above you may want to take a look through the tutorial I linked above as it pretty much covers everything above.

 

thanks

 

Cam and crank are set (like..half a tooth off)

The water pump doesnt need to be timed...


The pulley to the left of the crank pulley (has a groove in it...) is lined up and set (of course...at TDC)

the ONLY one that I couldnt figure out ...was the one to the right of the crank...I think its referred to as the rear balance shaft...


I seen a < cut out of the pulley like it was used for a mark...and i also seen a circle type dot on the rear balance shaft pulley ...I tried to put the dot straight up (not knowing what to align it with) tensioned the belt...started the car...

Edit: This kind of helped me out... https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/timing-balance-shafts-96-accord-2-2l-2249804/


good news, it starts and i didnt bend any valves


bad news: the rear balance shaft is NOT in sync it shows bigtime too

can someone elaborate on this rear balance shaft? I have the front one lined up, the cam and crank are good to go, the water pump is just a pump...all i got left is the rear balancer shaft..hope I didnt mess anything up by starting it with the balancer out of whack...you can definetly tell its not balanced


Not sure what the tutorial means by "service bolt hole" and such...the only thing i seen on the rear balance shaft was a pinhole in the middle of it...i dont even think i could fit a screwdriver in it..

THANK YOU ALOT TOURING ACCORD!!! You have been a big help

 

yes, the pulley to the right of the crank is the rear balance shaft.

nothing should have been damaged by starting the car with the balance shaft out of time.

the service bolt is located on the back side of the engine block. take a look at the following diagram...

do you see bolt #19? no, thats NOT the service bolt, the service bolt should be right next to that one (I couldn't find any diagram with it so...). By looking at that diagram and the picture in my tutorial you should be able to locate the service bolt.

no problem, I'm happy to help

 

found the service bolt, removed it...stuck an allen wrench or somethin in there to lock it in place...put the belt on tensioned it rotated it checked it...the front balance shaft was a tooth off...i figured oh well, lets see if it starts...


Started the car...it shakes very bad...I noticed that my passenger side motor mount is in bad need of replacement, so I wrote the shimmy/shake off to the bad mount...


Front balance shaft one tooth off, matter enough to fix it?

When I give the car some throttle under the hood and watch the timing belt, it moves probably 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch...doesnt seem like much, but does that matter? It seems to only move so far and wont go any farther...
Problem?


After I had the car running I wanted to see what kind of response it had, well...To say the least I was not impressed...I had been driving a 90 LX (with ex motor) and you could rev it to like 3000, punch it to the floor and let off and it would hit 6000 RPM ... My 93 EX ...rev it to 3000 RPM, Punch it, and it might hit 4000 RPM (I know, revving a car in neutral is retarded)

So I messed with the ignition timing thinking that was it, and there is only one place on the ignition timing that it will even start really... (Standing on the passenger side of the car) I would rotate the distributor all the way to the left..Wouldnt start...All the way to the right, wouldnt start...Put it back in the middle(ish) and it would start again, but still no true response..
When I first decided to mess with the timing is after it warmed up...I gave it a bit of thottle, then all of the sudden gave it max pedal, and it "backfired" somewhat, seemed like through the intake...
Could this be cause the cam is half a tooth off???

I know this is a low compression engine (8.8:1) and it's bread and butter is NOT response, but as I said my old 90 model with many many more miles had MUCH better response.

Seems to be a bit of a racket in the top end of the motor...Not as bad as my old one...

I have revved a 92 EX, and it revved like a DREAM...Mine however, something isnt right.

I do not have my intake ducting put on yet...(No air filter/vacuum hose/metal hose hooked up yet) I also don't have my belt assemblies on yet, Nor the harmonic balancer...

Dont have belt assemblies or harmonic balancer on yet cause of the front balance shaft..

Dont have the intake ducting on yet cause, well...when I rev it and toy with it and rev it, my car gets hot...I noticed my fans werent kicking on.

My fans ARE hooked up.

The fuses ARE good.

 

did the engine shake before you had taken it all apart? If it was then I would assume it's probably the motor mount as well.

as for the front balance shaft... not sure but if it was me I would take it back apart and realign it to be sure.

I'm sure the timing belt moves a little when the engine is running but how much I'm not sure. If you did the tension process correctly then I'd say you should be fine.

as for your "testing", I would put everything back together before doing any of that. But even then I wouldn't be using neutral revving as my bases for testing. Without having the accessory belts on you are running solely off the battery, so I wouldn't be doing that to much. Put the crank pulley, belts and intake piping/filter back on and see how the car runs after that.

 

I do not know how bad it shook before, I bought the car for 250$ and figured out it had bent valves...The mount is obviously shot to ****. Anyway I fixed the valve problem..

I will take off the timing balancer belt and realign the front shaft as close as I possibly can. (While putting the pin in the service hole. ) tension, turn, and recheck at TDC before I put the belts back on.


Also, it has new NGK plugs, a BRAND NEW distributor, and the valve springs/valves(golden brown burn on exhaust valves) looked VERY good in the head I purchased, and the vehicle the head came off of had perfectly good oil, and antifreeze. (nice bright green)

My fuel pump makes a "clunk" noise when you turn on the key to prime it..Like it isnt secure in the tank.. Is it possible that could affect the performance? Because it gets fuel, plenty of it.

Edit: The camshaft sprocket is 1/2 a tooth out...If it were the tooth above, it would be further out of time...If it were the tooth below, it would be further out of time than it is now...I would like to know what you think of this, @TouringAccord.. (As far as how much it would affect performance ect)

edit2: I have it connected to another car with jumper cables running through my battery the whole time, but I understand what you are saying...Obviously new at this I need all the advice/tips/pointers I can get.

 

well, the fuel pump shouldn't be making a "clunk" sound but I'm not sure if it will affect the performance. I'm not sure if that year Accord has an access panel where you can get to the fuel pump or not, I know on the 94-97 Accord you have to drop the gas tank.

as for the cam being off 1/2 a tooth, that should be fine.

 

Advice on breaking the crankshaft bolt loose? Tried an 18v snapon impact, didnt work..

Some other guy was working on the car before I bought it and he torqued the bolt on the crank down, even though the harmonic balancer was off ect...

I guess I can try to wedge a big screwdriver (have one with a bent end..) in the flywheel..

The bolt calls for 181 lbs of torque, not sure how I will ever torque it to spec either, lol..


What "basis" do you use for setting the ignition timing on your car(s)?

 

an electric impact isn't going to cut it. you need a large air impact and a lot of air flow to get it off.

as long as he didn't torque the bolt down you could try and stick something in the flywheel but do not try and put a lot of pressure on it because you can seriously damage the tranny housing. I've seen pictures from people breaking junks out of the housing from doing that.

So you could try it to see if the bolt is only lightly tightened, but do not put a lot of pressure on it.

if the bolt it torqued down real tight the only/best solution is going to be a large enough air impact.

as for tightening the bolt back down, get the special holding tool and rent a torque wrench from autozone.

 

Hello again.. I managed to get the bolt off and my balancer on. (Took a wooden shaft and tapped it on all the way around the crank..real close to it) Put the bolt on it and torqued it probably only 30-40 lbs (Its all I can torque it to atm..) Went to put the alternator belt on, but it wouldnt fit..

I mean wouldnt fit..I mean it was real far off...like it fits on the power steering pulley np...But when you go to put it on the alternator/AC pulley, it barely even catches for you to crank the motor over and have the belt on.

So I did just that...put it on crank pulley as much as it would go ..and cranked the motor a bit til it got on.
I wouldnt have done this, but I already checked out the alternator pivot point, and it wouldnt pivot anymore, and, I remember having to do this on my 90 model...But WTF I dont even have the alternator tensioner bolted up and its so freakin tight...somethin isnt right, and I am about to cut this belt off of there... I remember havin to cut my belt off of my 90 model too, but...It wasnt this tight even with it tensioned...


In short, the belt is way too fkn tight and I dunno why..Maybe the guy had the wrong belt on there to start with but I doubt it...and no, its not my power steering belt.

I am not pleased with the revving of the engine AT ALL!!! I am going to drop the tank and secure the fuel pump and hope like hell thats whats causing this lack of power... The cylinder walls looked(and felt) great, the head is emaculate, and the distributor/plugs are brand new...It is probably the ignition timing but I am not sure when to advance or retard the timing. I just know that where I have it timed now, it starts.


On a side note, How do preludes hold up? Everyone says they are turds they dont last near as long as accords, but, hell...Dont some of em use the same engines even? just difference in gear ratios right? A link to information about honda transmissions and their gear lengths/ratios would be greatly appreciated.


I dunno wtf about the belt, its too tight, thats all there is to it. The alternator is pivoted toward the head and, way tight...

 

if the belt is that tight and you have already checked to make sure everything is set to be as loose as possible then it's more than likely the wrong belt.

as for gear ratios, there should be a link in the FAQ.

 

Update:

It was the wrong belt.

I had 2 vacuum hoses in their opposing places..
(I had the vacuum hose that goes to the air filter box housing on the lower part of the throttle body instead of up top on 1 of those 3 nipples)

Also I have been reading about timing...ignition and cam/crank...


I ran across something that said in order for your ignition timing adjustment to take affect, you need to jump the service connector.

And about the crank/cam, I was told NOT (yeah NOT) to set the crank/cam to TDC for timing, that I should look for some "advanced" timing marks to time it with..They claim this is why my car is not performing as I expected.

PLEASE, Are these "advance" timing marks bullshit or what?

If they hold some truth please link me or briefly explain..Wish I knew as much as TouringAccord...

Thought of using a timing light to see if I could diagnose anything from that, but I don't know how to use one, or how they work. (How they work meaning, whether its for ignition timing or cam/crank timing...)

I am sick of tinkering on this car, but I can't afford to have someone else do it, and I like to learn things for myself. However I hate not knowing if said things are true/false, or true under certain circumstances, ect.....

Edit: Wouldn't catch me dead wasting time on a taurus or cavalier ect... Another reason, <3 Honda!

 

I know how a timing light works now minus how it connects to #1.

The 3 set of marks(middle one being red) in my (byflywheel...flexplate?) transmission are something like 15 degree BTDC marks, if I read correctly. So I turn my engine til the red mark is lined up with the sight (kinda like on a gun) and then I hook up a timing light to the battery and cyl#1 and point the light at this red line, and start the car? What should I expect to see ? I would think it would be just a big blur and you couldnt ever see the red mark...

I found a vacuum hose diagram.

 

Sorry. What I should have said was something more like:


Do you use the BTDC marks for mechanical timing? Such as the cam/crank..

Or are the BTDC marks only used for ignition timing?

 

Just make sure you aligned the correct mark to the back plastic cover, and just make sure you align the cam pulley to the back cover as well.

 

It did not have a timing belt cover when i purchased the car.

When I timed it mechanically, i lined up the marks on the cam sprocket with the valve cover mating surface of the head. UP is ..UP...had the crank on TDC compression stroke (not BTDC...) lined the balancer shafts up and put the belt on, turned, checked, tensioned..checked...all good if #1 TDC is the benchmark for timing mechanically..


I am on the way to get a timing light gun, and I am gonna jump the service connector and set the timing, remove jumper, remove backup fuse, and reinstall fuse 10seconds later..

Cam= UP is UP and the lines are parallel with the mating surface of valve cover..
Crank= #1 TDC
balance shafts in place..

I am hoping that the timing isnt so far off that I can't correct it by simply turning the distributor..Tried tinkering with timing before but I didnt know you had to disable the computer..Gonna get a light and do it right..

My ignition timing marks are inbetween the engine and transmission. (the TDC and BTDC marks..)

 

I re-read this thread and I need to work on simplifying things and not being redundant. I have memory problems which I think contributes to this.

I hope my last post is accurate.