I know this type of conversation has happened in the past, and is sometimes frowned upon, but I need a forum for open discussion that does not have specific bias (other than towards Honda). I could have posted this topic in both the Civic and TSX forums, but I already have an idea each side would prefer…

With that said, I have been DD’ing my ’93 Toyota Pickup for years now since retiring the R to weekend/track duties. The 22RE pickup is great, I average 27-29mpg, can haul dirty crap, engines, garbage, and I can probably run it on kerosene and urine. However, it is not comfortable and does not entertain me very much.

I am 26 now, just got married and the wife and I bought our first home this year. With our finances sorted, we figure it is time for me to graduate to a more suitable daily driver. I am not one to care about image, or country of origin, etc, but we are all here because of the H, and I have only had great success with Hondas (and Toyotas), so my search has been blindly limited as such. My target price is no greater than $25,000.

My two primary choices have been a slightly used TSX 6-speed, or a new Si Sedan. My round-trip commute is around 80 miles each day, so fuel economy is higher on the list of wants. Both the TSX and the Si Sedan have roughly equal performance; the Si being lighter obviously has an advantage. Both offer EPA MPG in the 30-32 range for highway (90% highway duties here). The Si is more of a niche market car, and I would almost prefer to have something more run-of-the-mill. However, the Si will have the slight advantage in the fun category. The TSX will probably retain value for longer, only because it has an A badge versus H. The TSX is definitely more ‘luxury’, with plush leather and more gadgetry around the consol and steering wheel, but both offer almost identical interior room and cargo space, and both are iPod capable, have optional NAVI, good stereo, etc. They both look good, the TSX being more mature than the Si.

In short, I want an economically minded, fun to drive, reliable sedan or 4dr wagon/hatchback. I would imagine life of ownership with me will be in the 5-7 year range, so resale is important. Manual transmission or DSG, with looks that don’t scream teenager, and something that will be comfortable with technology packages available.

I have also considered a new Civic EX-L, Fit Sport, Corrolla S, Matrix, Mazda-3 5dr, used Audi A3 2.0T, Hyundai Elantra Touring, Subaru Legacy 2.5i… Please make suggestions if you think of something I haven’t!

(All images stolen from google search)
'04-'07 TSX

'04-'07 TSX Interior

'09 Si Sedan

'09 Si Sedan Interior


Civic EX-L (imagine 5-speed manual)

 

I was in the market for a new daily back in January. I was debating on an 08-09 Si sedan or an 06 TSX 6MT. I went with the TSX. I liked both, but the insurance was much less on the TSX.

I added a DC5R LSD to the TSX, which the car should have come with standard. It's comfortable, quick enough, and still gets 30 mpg on the highway with AC on avg around 70-80 mph. I've pondered the a-spec suspension to tighten it up a bit.

 

I would go with the TSX... But keep the truck for hauling (if you need it), have the TSX as your more professional working man's car, and have your R as your track beast for fun! You probably won't get a justifiable amount of money for the truck to sell it... My 2 cents. I can't wait for my Saab to die, so I have a reason to buy a TSX or TL!

 

I certainly plan on keeping the Toyota! It costs me $42/mo to insure, and has probably the lowest maintenance costs you can think of.

I have driven my friends ’04 TSX 6MT, and that was a good car. Not too firm, comfortable, great interior. I haven’t driven the Civics yet, my wife has an ’04 EX auto, and that can get to highway speeds no problem.

I am not looking for another toy that’s for sure. It’s a tough decision. I am going to the Honda dealership next Sunday to test drive some cars.

 

Tuff to go wrong with either of those chioces. I might be a lil bias though since I sell all 3.

Obviously the CRV makes the most sense for a family with 4wd capabilities doesn't need to run premium gas and the extra room but you alreay have a truck already.

SI is alot like the ITR in its driving characteristics. Will definately feel somewhat familiar to you. Since it is a 4 door the kids will like it too. It could be considered a toy though.

The TSX is a great car. Definately the most luxurious of your bunch. Depending if you go manual or automatic though it can seem like it is lacking something the Si has IMO.... An LSD.


If it where me with those options, I'd say go Si. I'll be interested to hear your driving impressions.

 

I haven't thought of anything in particular yet , but keep in mind both the Si and TSX require Premium 91+ octane fuel. If you get something that can run on regular ole' 87 octane and achieves similar MPG, that will save you about 20 cents per gallon for the duration of vehicle ownership

 

Had a tsx and hated it. The dbw throttle kills the car! Drive it and you'll know what I mean. I Don't think its as bad on the auto...

Vote for Civic Ex if its just a daily. You can run regular gas too.

 

if it was me, and i had what you had, i would get the tsx just because its "nicer/more luxurious" and it would be something that i would be owning for a long time coming. to me it makes more sense as a "family" car. and you have your r as your fun track car. the tsx is a more suitable family car to me. i know if i had the si, i would want to do way to many things to it.

a guy at my work has an 06 si and i take it to lunch every now and then and its definately fun to drive, its more sporty then the tsx and i would imagine more room for modifications.

 

Yea, my friend is a salesman at a local Honda dealer, so he is going to cut me as much of a break as possible. I am hoping Honda does some good financing offers for the new 2010's when they arrive in a couple weeks. The TSX option will obviously be either from private party sale or certified used from a dealership, since the new TSX’s are a bit out of my price range, and not as good looking (IMHO) as the first generation.

It is funny you mention the CRV, I was originally looking at CRV's, Rav4's, Foresters, etc. I know you can get close to 30mpg with some of the 4cyl AWD small SUV's. The only problem is here it snows *maybe* 3-5 days a year, and average winter temperatures are in the low 40's. I don't want the loss in fuel economy for the convenience of AWD, when a good FWD car with snow tires and/or chains can get by in most cases for those rare occasions.

As for the LSD missing from the TSX, I think at some point I would probably install a DC5R or Si LSD if I end up getting a TSX. Shouldn’t be much of a challenge considering I’ve done tranny rebuilds on B/D/H gearboxes before.

I did consider that. It works out to about ~$150 over the course of a year if 15,000miles are driven. I know the TSX’s can run on either 87 or premium, with the lower octane resulting in a reduction of ignition advance/power and probably a penalty on fuel economy.

I think all new Hondas have DBW. I don’t know if the Hondata flash resolves any DBW lag, but that is common in the Nissan/Infiniti world is to reflash the DBW settings.

The Civic EX-L is compelling – 36mpg, 5-speed MT, Navi, heated leather seats, good room/cargo space…

 

TSX - luxury and you dont have to mod it. So then you have the R to mod and run around in for fun.

Si-too tempting to mod

I will tell you that my wife has a Mazda3 5door and it is a blast to drive. The Mazda Speed 3 5 door maybe something you would enjoy aswell. (kind of like the R of the mazda 3) it has nice style, nav option, 6 speed and turbo for highway driving : ). New they are around $26.

 

You want to keep this DD for 5-7 years, and you are 26 now, so you will have until you're 31-33......that's 46 kids down the road. Look for a small SUV with good gas mileage.
How do you like the way I left the 'dash' between the 4 & 6 out?

 

Well. I am a Sales consultant at an Automall consisting of a Hyundai, Nissan, Infiniti, Mitsu.

I like the cars that you have chosen: 4 door Si, CR-V( my gf daily one and we love it), and tsx are all great choices that i would put at the top of my list. I ,myself, would like to have a 07-08 6spd TL-S, but that might take a while for me to get. I will give straight forward answers with little to no bias. It seems like it doesn't matter if it has a manuel or auto trans, so I think the following may work....

- (07-09) Nissan Altima 2.5 S,SL. Depending on what you want for features. This is one of the best sellers at our store. Named the Best mid-size car in its class.

- (07-08) Nissan Altima 3.5 SE. Wouldn't be a bad car for you. Handles well, plenty of pick-up from the 270hp 3.5. (Available in auto in 6spd manuel)($15- 23K)(nav harder to come by on the altima) Gas Mileage similar to an Accord/tsx.

- (08-09) Hyundai Sonata Limited v6. Great warranty, decent pick-up. comfortable. Best Value for the price. Hyundai is known to have the 4th fewest problems per 100 cars.(15k for a 08, and 21k(with nav) for a 09) Gas mileage similar to an Accord/TSX.

- (05-06) Infiniti G35. My roommate just picked up an 06 G35, and i have to say i was quite impressed after driving it! But the car pissed me off replacing the HID bulb. I wanted to run it in a river after spending a hour replacing one bulb. But the car is amazing. I would prefer a manuel car, but i would take a Automatic G35 and be happy with it. Kind of a common luxury car, but i see why it is. ($20k-24K(with nav)). Gas mileage not the best of the best.

This is what i know. If i knew more about bmw and others then i would comment on them, so i will just talk about what i know.

 

Marshall, I would also take a look at the 4th generation (99-05) VW Golf TDI's. The VW Jetta also offered the TDI during those years if you'd prefer the Jetta body. I have a friend who has a 2001 VW Jetta TDI and he would regularly get 45-50 mpg with it! I personally think a 4-door hatchback Golf TDI would be pretty darn badass. The look pretty nice and its really quite awesome MPG. Plus we can get you parts cheap on them

 

TSX is the more dignified/luxury look. Whereas the Si still shouts tuner car. I like the looks of the Si a bit better, but I like the refinement of the TSX. Since you already have an R, I would lean to the TSX side. They are two very nice rides and either way you go you will be happy.

 

Also, forgot to mention that the VW Passat is also available with the same 1.9L TDI engine too. The Passat will be the most luxurious TDI model. These cars should also be very affordable on the used market right now too

 

Yea, I've been looking at the newer VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI, they typically get in the high 40's for fuel economy.



The only problem is I dislike the VW crowd that thinks VW's are better because they are German therefore German > all, especially since the only VW's I've had experience with (1999 Jetta 2.0 & 1996 Passatt VR6) have all been POS's, especially when it comes to electronics and headlights bulbs! Not to mention the rest of the non-TDI lineup us rubbish.

If the Audi A3 came with a TDI in an S-trim, I might consider moving my price range up a bit.

Thank you for the honest reviews. I was at the Nissan dealership on Saturday dropping my dad's new car for an oil change, and talked to the salesman about the 0% finance special going on. I like the newer Nissans, good lines, good interior, good engine packages, but the fuel economy is too poor for me to consider them a viable option for 80 miles per day duties. Even with the 2.5's, the best you can get is mid 20's.

Basically, if it can't best 28-30mpg highway, I don't think it will suit my interests, since I would be 'downgrading' in that category over my current pickup. It is sad times when a 15 year old pickup truck and get better fuel efficiency than 90% of cars on the road.

What I REALLY REALLY want is a 2004-2008 Euro Accord Touring (wagon) iDTEC! 45+mpg 2.2 Turbo Diesel!

 

My daily is a Cadillac CTS if anyone cares. There are points about it that I love and others that I hate.

 

That Jetta Sportwagon TDI would be pretty cool. I think the TDI crowd is a whole different crowd honestly. Most customers we've had with them seem like very nice people who simply want an economical vehicle. I think this site is supposed to be pretty good for TDI owners: http://www.tdiclub.com/

That would be quite cool! Is that a realistic swap opportunity? Or would it just be more hassle than its worth and super hard to obtain parts, etc.?

 

To be honest, Im not a fan of many Hondas anymore, Im only keeping my R cause there is no way in hell I can sell it for what I'd like/deserve.
Ever since I've stepped foot in my Q45, my whole outlook and perspective has changed on what I look for and enjoy in a vehicle.
I know you mentioned wanting good gas mileage and mostly highway, so I would confidently suggest you look at 01-03 Lexus Ls430's. Youll spend less than 20k and easily find it to be one of the best cars you've ever owned. Cars like the GS3/400, later model LS400, LS430s and Q45s are designed to be sporty, let luxurious, you simply arent buying just a big comfy boat, they do/can handle very well.
Anyone of those cars are also faster than the SI and TSX as well. The TSX is ALRIGHT, but really its just a kinda fancy accord, didnt do much for me. Nowadays, I find Hondas to be very overpriced, something you dont realize until you shop in totally different markets. MY 00 Q45T was purchased for 6200 dollars at a dealership, MINT, everything works, havent had an issue in nearly a year. Gas, Amsoil fluids and some mods here and there, Im in love, srsly.
Lastly, just recently have I started looking at British and let me tell you, from what I've read, 98+ Jaguar XJ8's are fuggin amazing. At first it was simply the looks and interior that got me, after reading deeper I've found that they are VERY reliable, good decent MPG, have plenty of power and so many little touches that really wins me over.
If youre really looking to step it up and have something thats serious luxury, get a car like the above mentioned. It feels good to drive a car thats far different than your garage/race car, IMO.

 

Based on exactly what you have stated in your premise, I think that it is likely that you would be happiest with the TSX six speed.

 

my first reaction was: whats wrong with daily action on the R? but 80miles a day in a built R... i was doing 50 on mine. not sure if i would like to do more...

as for the Si. from a parts counter standpoint (i work at a Honda dealer). its a good choice. we dont get to sell **** for those. just maintenance. and a 3rd gear set every once in a while.

but personally if im putting down that much cash? i would like the luxury of the TSX.

 

Some other "newer" cars to consider...

Toyota Matrix : Great all-around economical and somewhat fun package. Kinda sleeper. Doesn't scream teenager.
-XRS model has the 1.8L DOHC Engine, 170hp, 6-spd gearbox. Should be somewhat fun and good on gas.
-Hatchback makes for great practicality in transporting things as compared to a Sedan or Coupe

Honda Fit - Consider one of these?

 

Don't have much to offer other than resale on Si's seems to be not so great. The TSX appears to be doing better in that department.

 

I'd go with the tsx.

 

Is there a specific reason you haven't showed interest in a TL? I'm guessing the fuel economy is a little worse, but that would be my top pick for that price range. I also think it would have the highest resale out of a Si or TSX.