Just to start this off, I have searched and searched on this subject. I have a couple of questions on strut tower bars and chassis stiffening devices.

1. Which mounting point is better for the front strut tower bar: the stock ITR location or the shock tower?

2. Do adjustable bars have any benefit due to being able to set preload, etc?

3. Do bars with pivot points have any real life drawback compared to solid bars?

4. For the rear lower tie bar, what is the best mounting location: stock ITR location or LCA bolts (i.e. Benen tie bar)?

 

Difference is probably too minute to make a difference.

Bars that have adjustment points usually allow a certain amount of flex as a result. Non-adjustable bars tend to be stiffer.

See #2.

See #1.

 

1. Both are good, doesn't matter -- it braces the chassis in the same position. But I would imagine ITR is a lil better since it's OEM honda and honda only develops the best for that.

2. No benefit, just a feature

3. Nope

4. LCA Bolts have more of a brace on the LCA Bolts stiffening it up better.

HTH

 

ttt....anyone have any other comments??

 

first of all, BEAUTIFUL CAR haha

I would say do both and get the best of both worlds.

I need to get a better picture but that is a Tanabe adjustable bar on the strut tower tops and a knock-off TypeR ebay special that was $25. Total spent is about ~$125 out the door....that's half the mugen.




[Modified by Tweakmeister, 3:13 AM 8/29/2002]

 

Just to add a little.


Here is the Integra Type-R Unitbody cut-away:



In general the more stiff the chassis is, the More the Suspension is allowed to let the car maintain properly tuned contact with the road surface.

The ITR's assisted body rigidity or Unitbody Rigidity allows the factory tuned suspension to work to it's near neutral handeling.

Carbing/Rigid seem to be the most serious of the bunch sans the Mugen. Anything that has more than 2 mounting points will be stronger. a Triangle or similar is better than a straight line.

Good luck,

A.

 

Very nice 1GreyTeg, useful diagram

 

It's interesting how all of the chassis stiffening is in the rear, and the front only gets a bar. Is this because the regidity of the rear has more of an effect on handling, or did they just over-engineer the front in all tegs?

 

what Reid said

 

1. Which mounting point is better for the front strut tower bar: the stock ITR location or the shock tower?

Although the 2 positions are relatively close, the one of the best places would be the UCA mounting locations. The more triangulation the better. The best bars that I have seen exhibit triangulation is the Neuspeed bar and the Carbin (sp?) bar. The Carbin unit actually has shorter bars that can resist deflection better. Not to mention that it relies upon the firewall for strength also. Often times, the mounting locations are so close together that it does not offer much gain in rigidity. It is also important to look at the mounting brackets for the strut bar. Those are often overlooked and are the weak link in a strut bar. Any type of adjustability is bad with the exception of slots.

2. Do adjustable bars have any benefit due to being able to set preload, etc?

Yes. Preload is good because the bar will actually act like a static spring. If you preload it, it will take more force to cause deflection than with the bar unloaded. Unfortunately, bars that can be sprung often have adjustable rod ends on them. This makes the bar unless if there is a degree of freedom present. The less degrees of freedom, the better. In my opinion, I would rather have a solid non-adjustable bar that triangulates the strut bars and the firewall than one that can be preloaded.

3. Do bars with pivot points have any real life drawback compared to solid bars?

yes, for the exact reason that they can move. Forces acting on the car are huge and any possibility of movement can and will happen. Additionally, the threaded portions of the rod ends introduces stress concentrations which can later cause fracture.

4. For the rear lower tie bar, what is the best mounting location: stock ITR location or LCA bolts (i.e. Benen tie bar)?

Directly through the load path. The ITR location is ideal because it passes right through it (right between the nodes of the LCA pickups). Although the aftermarket bars still pass through the load path, they are mounted on pivot points. Using the LCA bolt locations is done because it is easy to mount. The mounting points are simply pivots that will cause the rear lower bar to simply be a decoration. It will act as a simplified 4-bar linkage.

 

Thanks guys for all the good info!

Tweak: You have a very nice car as well. Esp. good choice in color.

 

If you use Carbing typeII front bar (triagular bar), you make use of the shock mount location and the firewall. To top it off, add an ITR or a Si bar in the stock ITR/Si location with the Carbing bar... then, you've just used up all the possible mounting point in the engine bay.

 

BTW, when it comes to Chasis stiffening I'm kind of a nut.....

Besides the dual front bars, I've got a Rear tower bar, a rear trunk bar (like the R). A lower tie-bar in the rear (not on now...lca bolts are a pain), and the front (on order). And to cap it all off, a C-pillar bar as well (on order). Next will be a roll-cage but I'm not so ready to give up the back seats yet.

For spending less than $500 the difference is very noticable.

 

Nice set of bars you got there, maybe you should look at the A-sport Inner Fender braces, I know A&J Racing carries them. If your're into as much chassis stiffening as possible without putting in a cage.

 

ah thanks.

I had seen those a while ago but couldn't find a good source of info on them.

I'm not trying to win any races...after putting on my first front strut tower bar I wanted to see how far I could take the chasis...while on a budget. There are several great books out there on chasis engineering as well....and what you read you can take with you to future vehicles.

I've been wanting to swap out the springs/shocks but time, money, and my commute through the bombzone known as the DC beltway has prevented this.

 

I'd like to see one of those mounted, just to see the concept of how it works...on any chassis, not just ITR's, if you've got pix.

Thanx.

 

Not sure what the stuff was called... however, I was watching some Best Motoring video that was testing a whole bunch of mechanics who tuned Supra's. Once tuned the Best Motoring drivers would take each car out for a spirited jaunt around the track, anyways, one tuner used this foam stiffing material. Basically he mixed to chemicals together, when mixed they would expand into a foam after 10 mins this stuff was like steel, and of course super light. He used that stuff to stiffen the chassis... I would love to get my hands on that stuff, whatever it was.

 

Here is a picture from JDM_DOHC_SiR from his CRX


Here is a post about them from the EF Forum
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=125652

I ordered mine but they came in damaged so my new, undamaged set should be coming this week hopefully.

 

Does anyone know what those two points of the subframe are called that the "Rear Performance Rod" ties together. At first I thought that trunk bar was kind of pointless but after I saw that diagram a year or so back it looks to be pretty important. But does anyone know what those two sections of the subframe are called?

 

Here ya go http://itwfoamseal.com/auto_aftermarket.htm.

It's was a bitch trying to import this stuff to Canada...oh ya, make sure the inside of your frame rails are clean and little scuffed up so the foam can bond to it. It doesn't need to bond to the inside of the rails, but it will be stiffer if it does. Don't sweat it if can't get the inside of the rails clean, sometimes it's just too tight