So I took my car to the dyno today to see what she was putting down. I have never dynoed the car since I owned it.

So we did different pulls changing the dial in the E85 Conversion box. Inside the box it has a dial that goes from 1-10. 10 the richest and 1 the leanest. We ended up on 9 with the best results of 174.2HP

Car seems to be running really well to in the A/F. Could stand to be a little lower but good for just a plug in E85 conversion box.

Below is a quick video "Not the greatest quality" of one of the runs. Sorry I didnt show the screen after the pull. He also told me that Dyno Dynamics dyno's usually show a lower number. He said on a Mustang I'd probably be around 188 to 190. Anyone??



And here are the graphs.



Tell me what you guys think.

 

so everything is stock 'cept for the e-85 conversion?

 

I think I spied a SRI in there.

 

Everything except the cat-back and k&n drop in motor wise.

 

haha, I promise there isnt.

 

It's very hard to judge without a base pull in similar conditions. In winter and corrected for altitude my stock pull was 179.XXwhp. It all has to be taken with a grain of salt, it's possible that the correction was done wrong on my car, it's possible that all your gains are from the cat-back, just can't tell. I doubt you are seeing full potential because you were never tuned for E85, just my .02.

 

Yeah for just a plug in box it's doing really well. After the dyno and talking with the guys at the shop, there is def room for more timing and more fuel. So a good tuning could yield great results. He mentioned if I lowered the VTEC engagement it would smooth the power curve out and eliminate the VTEC dip. He also recommended an intake and maybe a good header so it can breath better.

 

http://www.hondata.com/flashpro.html
or
http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=4472

As for an intake and header, I like the Fujita SRI or the PW:JDM Power Chamber. The Skunk2 header is the nicest mass produced, and has a decent price on it. Anything better will run you 1200+

 

Without the ability to tune ignition timing (ie: your plug-and-play E85 box) I wouldn't expect any power gains.

Your next purchase should be the Hondata Flash-Pro or Cobb Accessport.

 

It is DEF next on my list. That's the same thing the guys at the dyno said I should get next.

 

Yeah I wasn't. I just wanted to get a somewhat baseline.

 

Let me get this straight you plug in a "E85 Conversion box" and can now run E85. So this little box adjusted the injectors for the new type of fuel, right?
Did you change up the fuel hoses? They don't like Ethanol.

 

Yep that's it. nope haven't changed the lines. Ethanol isn't as corrosive as Methanol. And plus we have 10% Ethanol in reg gas anyways so newer cars are better suited for Ethanol. If it was a pre 80's model then you would prob have to change lines.

 

Almost all fuel lines manufactured since the late 1980's are PTFE, which does not swell and crack like older fuel lines with Natural rubber when in contact with short chain Alcohols (butanol/ethanol/methanol).

My senior thesis was materials testing of E85 vs E10 (regular pump gas). I would share it, but it is currently en-que for SAE publication.

 

I wish I could see your write up. Congrats on the potential publication.

 

There are plenty of good SAE papers on ethanol and material compatability. They are ~$12 each, or sometimes free from a local University library.

SAE.org

 

Would you be able to share what you found out about Honda and Acura materials with us? I know some GM, Ford, and Chryslers are set-up to run E85 but others are not.
My wifes 2009 BMW owners manual says NOT to use E85.

 

Sure, SAE mandates the materials allowed for fuel hose construction in all passenger vehicles and heavy-duty trucks. PTFE is the industry standard. You cannot make a fuel hose for a US sold vehicle that is anything other than PTFE. Some manufacturers choose to reinforce the fuel line with silicon and sometimes glass fibers. The silicon adds to the hoses ability to resist thermal shock (better insulator) and physical shock (vibration/whipping), and the fiberglass can raise the pressure rating.

If the materials were incompatible with ethanol, they would be failing left and right, as the minimum allowable ethanol content is 5% (replaces the older, more polluting MTBE additive in pump gasoline), and is as high as 10% for regular pump gasoline. Essentially, the very least you will ever see in the US is E5, and the average is E10.

Vehicles that are equipped to run both E85 and pump gasoline run the same lines as standard vehicles. The key difference is the ability to continuously monitor alcohol content of the fuel, the ignition advance and fuel delivery rate are then adjusted to yield optimum performance and efficiency. The GM alcohol sensors are pretty cool units, and there are provisions in some aftermarket standalones to use these to essentially turn your vehicle into "FlexFuel". AEM EMS, DTA S-series and Motec all have provisions to run the GM alcohol sensor, these are just the ones I have used/seen personally.

The only materials concern is that aluminum can oxidize when in contact with ethanol and methanol. Most vehicle manufacturers use stainless steel fuel rails, but those that don't (some older Hondas for example) should be changed to SS to reduce the risk of ALO3 from entering the combustion chamber and gumming up your valve seats.

That is about as deep as I can go without jeopardizing my copywrite with SAE.

 

Nice information but you still did not answer my question.
What does current Hondas and Acuras use?

Basically, is ok for the original OP to continue running E85 in his car?

 

Yes it did answer the question:

Since PTFE = Ethanol friendly, the OP is good.

 

Wrong.
Where does it say in the Honda Owners Manual it is OK to run Ethanol?
Why it doesn’t say this is because the specs for Honda's Fuel hoses does NOT meet the requirement for E85.

92TypeR tested materials, he didn’t test Honda Hose.
I would have to say there a too many unknowns to think this would directly carry over to the OP’s car.
My whole point is we need to stop giving out incorrect information on this site.
If the OP's car was a purpose built racer car he would have made the necessary changes to run E85. Bigger injectors, PTFE spec'd fuel lines and fuel rail and tuned it to the proper a/f ratio

 

I agree that if you find any content in the Honda manual regarding E85, it will say not to use E85; but that is becasue of fuel delivery rate, not material compatibility. Do you mind sharing these "specs" that explicitly say "Do not use ethanol blended fuels on these fuel lines they are made out of a material that is incompatible".

Since you are so convinced Honda fuel hoses are unable to handle ethanol, please explain to everyone how it is that we aren't seeing failures all over? Every pump in the U.S., regular gasoline, premium unleaded, they all have between 5% and 10% ethanol. Every pump. In your car right now is ethanol blended gasoline.

Since ethanol was phased into all blends of unleaded gasoline to replace MTBE in the mid 90's, SAE has standardized fuel hose materials to prevent failures. If you are a vehicle manufacturer, and you want to sell your car in the U.S. (ie: Honda), then you must meet these requirements.

I agree that the OP's setup is far from ideal. But I feel this way not because of potential materials compatibility (or lack-there-of), but rather how the electronics are implemented. If the OP's car was a purpose built race car, he wouldn't be running a band-aid'ed fuel controller, and would have a proper alcohol sensor with an EMS, with scaled tables to properly supply the correct amount of fuel and ignition advance.

 

Yes I can. Simple really.
Think about it logically, the design limits would have to be more that 10% for the currently fuel grade standard and also less than the 85% in E85. Allowing them to meet the SAE standard.
I didn't say they didn't spec for E10, I said E85.

 

Can I use E85 fuel in my Honda or Acura vehicle? No. E85 is a new concept fuel being promoted by some other vehicle manufacturers.

No current Honda or Acura products are compatible with E85. Refer to the owner's manual for gasoline requirements.

There are basically 4 types of gasoline:

• E10 = 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline
• E85 = 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline
• MTBE15 = 15% MTBE and 85% gasoline
• 100% gasoline

The ethanol/MTBE is added to the E10 and MTBE fuels as oxygenate to help the fuel burn cleaner.

These fuel additives, up to 10% ethanol and 15% MTBE, are allowed on all Honda and Acura vehicles.

http://automobiles.honda.com/informa...px?Question=20

 

Sounds right, I wouldn't want anyone to run E85 in a Honda.

Honda's do not have the electronics to properly adjust fuel delivery rate and ignition advance when ethanol content is varied. The OP's setup is a solution to the fuel delivery problem - although it is fairly crude (and user operated) solution.

However, nowhere in that FAQ does it reference material compatability - specifically regarding fuel hose. I will state this again, if an automobile manufacturer wants to sell their vehicle in the U.S., they must meet all DOT/NHSTA and EPA requirements for safety and emissions. One of these requirements, initiated during M.Y. 1995 and 1996, was to mandate PTFE as the principal construction element for fuel hose. PTFE = Ethanol friendly. As I stated above, this was due to the increasing content of Ethanol in pump gas as a replacement to MTBE which was a bad pollutant.

It is certainly within the realm of possibility that Honda is defying these U.S. regulations and is not using PTFE for fuel hose. I however, think that this is unlikely.