YES I did a search, so spare me - I'm not a noob here.

So I just acquired a 1990 STD hatch from my sis. The car used to be my Mom's, then mine when I was 16-17, then my Mom's again, then my sister's, and now finally it's mine again for FREE.



Anyways, what kind of times have you guys turned with either a D16A6 (1988-1991 Si stock motor) or a ZC swap in your non-Si body?

I figure my car weighs about 2100;bs. maybe? Full weight with 14'' steelies with the sawblade 1992 Si covers. I plan on leaving it full interior since i already have another hatch that's my "race" car.

I'm not asking you all what my car will run. I'm just asking you all what you've seen on basically stock ZC or Si swaps in non-Si bodies so i can get an idea of what I'm getting into for my fun beat-on car.



Thanks in advance for your time and replies!

***EDIT***

By the way, I have 2 choices here, so help me if you've had experience with both choices:

1. Take a D16A6 here at my shop for free and rebuild it back to stock with the exception of the 1988 Integra pistons and use an Si tranny. The cost couldn't be more than $200-$300 unless the tranny needs bearings.

2. Pay a local importer here in ATL $650 for a ZC engine and tranny. Then take the 1988-1991 Si tranny's final drive and plop it into the ZC tranny for the nicey nice short ratios. The only thing that sucks here obviously is price and the need for axles.

I can round up the necessary axles and spindles needed to do the D16A6 swap in my STD for free, so the overall cost of the ZC seems a tad steep.

What do you all think?




[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 3:28 PM 8/26/2002]

 

mid to high 15's

 

I guess what i'm really asking is how much difference have you all seen between a good-running D16A6 and a ZC swap in similiar bodies?

I'm thinking the D16A6 would be pretty damn strong with the higher CR Integra pistons, and a cam is really easy and cheap to find for it if I wanted to make more power. I think maybe that way it could still cost about the same as the ZC but maybe be a better performer?

How would you compare the 2 motors overall when given the same tranny?

 

just think about it yourself, 130 vs 108 hp.

 

ran a best of 15.2 with zc in my crx dx. with just and intake and a slipping clutch.

 

Thanks for pointing that out

Seriously, I understand the horsepower difference, but what about hard numbers? Track times? What's the power potential of the ZC if you can't get cams easily at all or other parts that are so common for the D16A6?

And what about price?

I'd like to know the real difference of the motors - not just paper numbers.

 

i like my d15b2, but if i had to choose, i would pick the d16a6, i dont like ZCs. i know some people here in tucson with them and i mop the floor with them.

 

i used to want a zc but not anymore, i like my a6 too much. so i might do a z6 head swap soon. gotta love the d series. and plus ive heard on here that the 108hp d16a6 dynoed STOCK 100 WHP. so its underrated from the factory like a mother. its a good engine. i went 16.4@85 with short ram, and holes in my stock exhaust so basically it was stock. but people have done better, i just tend not to launch mine too hard. one guy did 15.8 with short ram and slipping clutch. d16a6

 

So was your 16.4 in a full interior'd Si hatch?

 

well just the jack/spare tire were removed. its way more gutted now than it was then. so yeah that time is old now, i need to get it back there.

 

Hopefully I can get to the track in my stock hb si soon. The car feels as quick as my 99 si when it was stock.

 

My choice would go to the D16a6... Im on my second motor already, and its bulletproof.. Its strong, and I hit 7800rpm daily. I was seriously considering a ZC motor a while back, but was overall unimpressed by its performance. I personally didnt think the extra price of the motor justified the performance. Granted the powerband of the ZC tops the d16a6, but only minimal down to midrange power. A few other issues i had: motor was NOT legal here in CA, distributor seems to fry all the time, and the price was too steep for what you get...

On the other hand, if youre going to boost the ZC, then it really hauls. The d16a6 is a gem of a motor though.. a friend of mine hit 15.6 in his Si Hatchback with ONLY a short ram intake (full interior) People have hit mid-low 15's basically stock with the d16a6. I love my d16. Altough this is the second d16a6 ive had, my old motor saw 8000rpm daily with a stock valvetrain. If it hadnt been for a snapped timing belt, i would still have that motor.

 

If your contemplating a ZC, why not just go and get SOHC VTEC, mine is great. I am thinking of taking it to the track this weekend, and hoping for a high 14. I am gonna get my header on hopefully, and be running IHE, VTEC controller, Teg ECU, etc, I am hoping for a high 14. I ran a 15.8 best with 2 zcs, best was with exhaust, and si tranny thats it.

 

Those are pretty nice times! I can't wait to get this car mod'd up.

 

MY FRIEND RAN A 14.9 WITH HIS ZC IT HAD INTAKE EXAUST AND HEADERS THOUGH.

 

this thread again

15.62 @ 88mph crx si slightly striped stock dohc zc engine, si transmission w/ exedy organic clutch. crappy firestones on one side and good years on the other.

2.36 60ft


[Modified by lamchop0000, 12:13 AM 8/27/2002]

 

DID IT REALLY????

Please, turn off the caps lock...

Someone post that pic that gives instructions on how to do this

CimorelliCRX, go to the track, cause I'm interested in what times you'll pull with that setup.


[Modified by 89_Y_49, 8:20 AM 8/27/2002]

 

When my Si motor ran decent in my 91 Civic Si Hatch, it ran low 16s. My ZC ran a best of 15.2 in the same car.

I've been watching these two motors pretty closely for about 4-5 years. Stock to stock, on average, I would say that the ZC is about 3/4 of a second faster through the quarter. Its third gear where the ZC really starts to pull on the SOHCs (non-vtec).

Now please note A6 buffs.... I said the words AVERAGE, and STOCK TO STOCK... I'm not looking for someone to post and "Oh yeah, my buddies, neighbors, friends, uncles landscape designer ran a 14.7 with his A6, and all he has is a some headwork, cams, and a 50 shot..." or something stupid like that. The idea of this post is to determine which motor is the better choice.

Honestly, I love the ZC, but if the A6 would be totally rebuilt and have a higher comp ratio, it would be tempting to go with that just because you'd have a fresh motor.

 

ok, here's the deal with axles (i am 99% sure this is right):
if you want to use Si axles (so you don't need an intermediate shaft) on a ZC tranny case, you need to get the bigger Si bearing (80mm OD/40mm ID) differential.

i have gone through 3 Si/ZC cases and they all were the bigger bearing cases. these cases were all 88-89 cases. i have heard that the 90-91s had smaller bearings, but i have also heard that's not true. this is why i just said find the "bigger bearing diff" and not the 8X or 9X diff.

i am currently running an Si quaife LSD and Si axles in a Si tranny case with ZC gears and Si final drive. boy that was a mouthful.

 

Thanks for all the useful info guys.

Since you are obviously familiar more with the ZC than I am, here's another question:

What are the inherent problems with the ZC?

I don't mean the extremes where a lot of them are water-logged because of shady-*** importers, but more the common problems with them even if the swap is really clean to begin with.

Like I know with 1st-gen B16As the distributors are really weak, and the trannies aren't the best either. Every 1st-gen owner I know has had a problem with one or the other or both. The trannies like to grind after a while or soon after being purchased and installed, and the distributors are so hard to find once yours craps out.

Are there any problems like this with the ZC?

If so, are there USDM replacements for them, like if the distributor goes to crap can you put on a 1988-1991 Si one and make it work fine?

These are all factors that I'm considering when trying to decide on ZC or D16A6.

Another thing for you D16A6 guys:

What do you think the CR will be after using the 1988 Integra pistons? I'll try to find the stock CR for both motors, but really it boils down to the combustion chamber size of both motors and the domes on their respective stock slugs I guess.

Thanks in advane for any information!

 

Oh and one more thing while we're talking axles:

I know either way I'm going to need axles since the car is a STD hatch.

I *think* rounding up the 1988-1991 Si axles won't be a problem since we've done some B16A and ZC swaps in various 1988-1991 models.

*IF* I get a ZC with the tranny what you guys are saying is that I can actually run the unequal length 1988-1991 Si alxes with no intermediate shaft as long as I have the right sized bearings for the diff in the ZC tranny?

I could just swap in the ZC gears with an Si FD in an Si case though, right?

This way I could have all-new case bearings including diff bearings if needed, right?

D-series trannies are notorious for having noisy bearings after 100K miles. If the problem isn't adressed quickly enough then the tranny usually breaks something important or locks you out of gears. I had this happen to me 2 times with my D16Z6 trannies in my 1992 Si before I went DOHC VTEC in it.

TIA again!

 

the ZC has the same dist. problem you mentioned that the b16a has. you can use the USDM 88-89 teg dist. in its place.

i think that is all with the ZC. i know people have tranny problems, but when you're dealing with 150k+ trannies, things begin to wear and wear alot.

 

Good to know aabout the distributor.

...And as far as trannies go, I figure new case bearings and it will be good for 100K miles easily. Something so simple as $150.00 worth of new bearings can save so much money on a new tranny. Plus this way you don't have to take a chance on buying a used tranny for like $250-$300 only to have it crap out months later.

 

the ZC case only accepts the 80mm OD/40mm ID differential bearing. this corresponds to the "big bearing" Si differential. what we have found out here is that honda has made two size diffs for the 4th gen...a 72mm OD/3Xmm ID diff. and a 80mm OD/40mm ID diff. the 80mm diff is the same as the ZC diff except for the axle spline inlet. the ZC inlet is bigger than the Si inlet.


that is probably the better approach since the only thing you would be changing is the Si gears to the ZC gears.

ok, time to get back to work.

 

landscape designer, classic!