what do you guys do for TDC when your building a motor when you dont have a dial indicator , I have one but its my dads and its in storage

I was thinking set an old 76mm piston ring in the bore crank it up till it pushes the ring into tdc position , and crank again to where it meets up with the ring and wala , technically it's the same basic idea....

any thoughts?

 

what do you need exact TDC for without the head on?

 

^huh? I am trying to set my pistons to EXACT tdc so I CAN put the head on , and then my timing belt , etc

 

There is a mark on the block behind the crank pulley there is a gear, match the line up with the arrow and it's TDC.

 

you mean the arrow on the oil pump? cuz you would see a mark on the "block" unless the oil pump is off. I dont see any marks on my Crank gear , I see the notch if thats what ur talking about but my gear is old and slightly rusted on the outside so I can see much on here , any pics of what you talking about?

 

this is for sohc, not sure if dohc is the same.

to time the block, there are 3 tiny consecutive notches on your hamonic balancer. then to the right of the 3 tiny notches, there will be a lone notch. that is your tdc mark. match that mark up with the petruding tab on your lower timing belt cover. just below the tab on the timing belt cover is a notch as well. these are fairly large compared to the rediculously small notches on the harmonic balancer. anyway, line up the tab and notch on the timing belt cover as if you were sighting a rifle. then get the lone mark in line with the tab. now you have tdc on the #1 piston.

 

If the head is off you should be able to just be able to turn the crank and visually see the pistons rise and fall.
No real reason for exact TDC if you set your cams so that they are closed as if they were on the compression stroke.

 

OR... when you have your head on, you can put a long, sturdy stick into the #1 cylinder with the spark plug out. alot of people make their own tools for this, i just pull my dipstick and wipe it off. its like a specialty tool that has its own compartment under the hood. and their good for checking oil tool

 

Come on man, I told you this already.

Turn the crankshaft until the piston is at it's highest peak. Your notch, line, point, mark, dash, hatching, scratch, arrow, pointer, or TDC doohickey (WTF EVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT) that is on the OIL PUMP and the CRANKSHAFT gear should be inline. This gives you TDC or you can just watch where the piston dwells at the top and center it. It is nothing scientific especially when you are just trying to drop the head on. It would be way different if you were trying to degree a camshaft on something like a V8.

Setup the head the same way and WHAM BAM THANK YOU MAM, you have the golden ticket to having a motor put together.

 

Do this

 

you know the white dot about an inch to the right of the three colored dots on the crank pully? you line that dot up with with the timing arrow on the timing belt cover. that determines tdc. i got that out of the honda manual

 

That's with the cover and pulley on.
"N3va3vaSatisfi3d" has it right without those on.

 

neva , I dont have any markings on my crank gear what am I lining up? the spot where the notch goes into the crank with the arrow?

 

Are you talking about the crankshaft timing gear or the crankshaft harmonic balancer/pulley. If you are talking about the timing gear then it will have a line on it. If it does not then you are somewhat screwed because the keyway does not line up with the arrow when you are TDC. If you can't see a line on the gear then you should take it off and flip it around it may be on backwards (even though I thought they tapered the key so that was impossible).

If you are talking about the balancer not having any marks this is simple but yet difficult... LoL... When you find TDC using the crankshaft gear then mock up the timing cover and carefully slid the balancer on the crank. After you do that, take a marker (or something similar you could even use a punch or an awl) and make a mark right where it lines up on the timing cover. BUT.... BUT... BUT...

When it comes to marking where the timing marks go then that becomes a whole different problem. For my aftermarket true harmonic balancer it came with no markings. I was pissed off but MSD sells a timing tape that comes in a multi-pack P/N - MSD 8985
. You can take the smallest one and it is just about the right size for our harmonic balancers (I can't remember but it comes with like a 5.25", 6" ect (think lol)). If you need a picture I might be able to dig one up. This would enable you use your pulley and get your timing dead on.

Either that or if you have a stock one laying around (as long as they are the same outside diameter) you could just measure out the markings AFTER you mark the TDC mark yourself.

 

my gear is old and half rusted. I deff dont see a line , and you lost me with the tape ,

I am pretty sure I dont have any markings on the pulley either....

Why cant I do the piston ring idea? then just put my head on and go from there....?

it shouldnt be that complicated should it?

 

Here hopefully this picture will help you.

 

Ok I think I found the arrow on my crank gear. so I got that covered. Is that all thats needed or do I need to make the marks on my crank pulley?

 

crank pulley should have a few machined grooves into it - not just painted on markings.
... and why do people call this pulley a harmonic balancer? It's not.

 

His crankshaft pulley does NOT have marks... he got a generic type one as a gift with no TDC mark or timing marks.

Also I am pretty sure I am the only one who talked about a harmonic balancer. I know the difference and I said in a earlier post that I bought a TRUE balancer for my motor and I was pissed because it came with no marks as well because it fits multiple applications. Even the higher end ones don't typically come with marks they want you to use tape in case your timing tab changes or your TDC mark is not correct. The enables you to find exact TDC and make your own mark and timing setup on the pulley.

OP I will post a picture when I find it of what I am talking about.

 

can I just line up my crank gear arrow with the one on the oil pump then put on my harmonic balancer with the motor already at tdc? bolt the head on , turn a few dgrees CCW and tighten the belt and then back to tdc and walla?

 

Yes you can... BUT, you will not be able to set the distributor timing correctly. If you are going boost like you say it will be imperative that you have the timing synced with your tuning program... otherwise your tuner will most likely have a very hard time making a right map for you.

 

Sorry but this is the only picture I could find to show you what I was talking about. Very crappy quality (stupid iPhone camera a while back the 3G S is a lot better LoL) but you can see the timing tape I am talking about. Just search E-bay with the part number I gave you and you can see the actual product.

 

op, if that pulley you have is a aftermarket "light weight pulley" dont use it. find an oem one. it screws all your balancing off, and prematurely wears out bearings.

N3va3vaSatisfied - are you using that harmonic balancer for daily use? ive never truely seen one on a honda before. does it give any major differences from an OEM crank pulley?

 

Well to your first statement this is both true and untrue. If you have a poorly balanced motor (aka for the most part stock) then it will destroy the bearings. If you have a balanced motor (aka even stock ones like ITR CTR = lightweight single pulley) then it will be fine.

To your question yes it is on my semi-daily driver. My B16 engine is 11,000 RPM stable and I pretty much every time I drive it I REV it to at least 10,000 RPMs a few times. I have about 15,000 miles on that setup and have had the pan down 3 times to inspect the bearings. Keep in mind that my motor is "perfectly" balanced and the balancer was bought for piece of mind as well as being able to REV that high. The stock harmonic balancer is only good to about 9-9.5k if I remember right and my aftermarket one is good up to 13,000 RPMs. I wouldn't say the motor truly makes power up there but if you have ever heard a B-series REV that high it is a big cool factor.

As far as benefits from it I don't see any true benefits other than if your engine is running slightly ruff or is not balanced properly or it is just stock then your rotating assembly would see less vibrations. This would lead to longer life. Another part of it that is missed is that crankshaft harmonics gets transferred to the camshafts which puts it to the valves. This will make everything wear faster as well not just your main and rod bearings.

People will probably cry foul, but I have it and you don't so go cry about it somewhere else.

 

I am not going to be boosting the motor right away I will be waiting till the motor is broken in. I really don't want to order tape just to finish doing this. can't I just make a mark with a sharpie? I mean all that tape looks like is a mark..... and why wouldnt I be able to set my distributor timing , I didn't realize I had to **** with that , I thought I just bolted it on and good to go.....I hate it when I need some little 2$ thing to finish something and I have to order it online only.