What's up honda tech.. been a long time. I ended up selling my Hondae because they both had serious body problems and ended up getting a '96 BMW 328is.. which is a great car.. but i miss the rawness of the Del Sol.

Now that i've tasted the sweet nectar of rear wheel drive and advanced suspension, it's hard to go back to hondas but i can't stop thinking about building up a Del Sol as a fun canyon carver and/or track car.

And i'm curious..

Given a couple thousand bucks in suspension components, can the Del Sol handle like a Miata or Z3? I know front-wheel drive is a disadvantage.. can it be overcame with the right stuff?
By the way; i do plan on putting a b18 or k20 in the front, so there'll be extra weight.

thanks!

 

First off as much as I love Honda and the past 15-16 years of my life with her, she will never be a RWD(unless S2000 or first gen S coupe). 2ndly my sohc Del sol when I bought it for some reason had weird over steer even with the stock suspension. I currently own a Del Sol VTEC and since I just picked it up haven't really tested in the turns. Since the car came with coilovers I replaced them with some of my own and it handles OK. But if you wanted a track/fun car it will do good, I honestly just use my Del Sol as a daily because shes a heavy one compared to my Hatch which now sees only weekend warrior duty.

 

A b18 (extremely general when saying just b18) does not weight a whole lot more (i guess comparing to a d series SOHC). id say 50lbs more than a d series, give or a take. And i doubt a k20 would weigh anymore than a bseries, and if so, prolly not that much.

I have tein superstreet's full bodied coilovers on my 92 civic hatch, with kumho ecsta's and it handles so damn good. Saying a FF is a disadvantage reminds me when i was 12 and all the initial D drift-o kids said stuff like that :/ FF's handle just fine

 

You can make the car handle well with suspension and tire changes, but FWD is still a limitation. Unfortunately, it has a lot to do with the location of the center of gravity, so there's only so much that you can do.

 

a fwd car has a higher cog than a rwd car??

 

I was thinking more on the lines that it's typically further forward.

 

I believe it is.

But I've heard wonders can be worked in corner weighting and relocating the battery as ballast.

 

i think you have cog and weight distribution mixed up and/or confused.

what makes ff cars "hard to drive" is the fact your drive wheels are your steering wheels.

 

Yea, Now that I'm thinking of how the 2 are different, I'm becoming confused lol.

 

Well... the location of the center of gravity is what determines the weight distribution. We're talking about the same thing.

It's not just the fact that the drive wheels and steer wheels are the same. The further forward the center of gravity is (more front weight), the worse the car will handle. It doesn't matter if the car is FWD or RWD, but obviously having the drive and steer wheels the same isn't really helping.

 

Anything can handle with money. Handle versus BMW's or whatever is apples to oranges. Also, handling perception, in average hands, has a lot to do with personal driving style, road conditions and other factors.

Use typical strategies like quality coilovers, chassis stiffening and good tire choice. Removing the roof panel definitely adds to chassis flex, so for best handling keep it in place.

For the average fun drive, I feel it can handle the job when equipped properly.

My personal del sol has seen some variations suspension wise. Currently I'm on PIC Selects, bushings and a rear asr with lca's. I'll be further adding strut braces and some other bits. Currently I'm pretty happy with it, but turn in is still sluggish and body flex is apparent. Alignment could help some issues to an extent. Just go with it.

 

the lighter you make it the better everything is going to work. is anyone shocked that even with high end cars such as ferrari, the old f40 and enzo are two of the fastest. they are also both under 3000 pounds. the F40 is lighter than a teg if i remember right

 

I do plan on dropping weight from the front of the car, and putting some into the rear if possible. I will definetely be riding the car without AC/PS, relocate the battery to the trunk, and any other tricks i can come up with.

When i had my del sol i remember the oversteer thing - that was annoying and i'm sure it'd get way worse on the track. Are there ways to eliminate the oversteer, or is that an Achilles heel that can just not be cured?

Man, i really want to get back into Hondas.

 

you have it backwards. weight distribution plays a role in cog as well as other things and not vice versa. also excessive front weight would be costly but shooting for 60/40 would make a fwd happy.

 

They go hand in hand. How do you calculate weight distribution? How do you find the center of gravity?

 

Del sols don't flex more with the top off if it does it is very minimal

Look at how it attaches compared to a supra which can be like driving 2 different cars with it on or off. The del sol has pins that slide into bushings and a supra has 4 bolts that screw in

 

If you know where the centre of gravity is, you know the exact weight distribution over all 4 corners.

 

ok quick example.

2 cars with the same weight distribution(50/50) and 50% cross weight.

cars weight=2000 so each corner=500

one car is 4inches off the ground.
the other car is 8inches off the ground.

do they have the same cog?? no.

 

Which just means that you can't calculate the CoG from just the weight distribution and total weight.

However, you can take the CoG and total weight and calculate and weight distribution...

 

lol. which came first...the chicken or the egg??

 

They have it in the same location longitudinally... which is the point.

Say your car has a 100 in wheelbase, and the center of gravity is located 30 inches behind the front axle. What's the weight distribution?

Like I said, they go hand in hand.

EDIT: By the way, you can have different weights left and right and still have a 50% cross weight.

 

It's funny because my Del Sol S with no rear sway bar had Major oversteer, but my Del Sol VTEC with rear sway bar had almost civic characteristics and when I took off the rear sway (due to not having long enough bolts for my function7 LCA's) it felt exactly the same. I guess I am just used to civic understeer.

 

hang on, the back end came out with no rear bar? that technically shouldn't happen but could if the tires are actually loosing contact with the surface from too little spring

 

holy ****. not to be a dick but height of cog is a major factor here. it plays into roll center which is major in how a car reacts in pitch and roll.

and yes you are right.

600 650

350 400

=50% cross weight...but doesnt equal 50/50 weight distribution like my example

 

This whole stupid argument isn't that the height of the center of gravity doesn't affect performance. It's that the location of the center of gravity changes with weight distribution...